Front Suspension upgrade

[jonathon]

Just read tech tips. I'd be tempted to re write it putting , full front end geometry check first, uprated poly bushes, obvious checks like tyre pressures, size, quality. Then are your original dampers /springs working correctly and not leaking or sagging.
If you then decide to opt for uprated kits then do your homework. If you cannot afford what you want, then save up, do not settle for less than you would if money were no problem. You will only end up dissapionted and spending yet more money to achieve the desired effect.
Do not fit just front or rear dampers, fit as a system which has been designed to complement each other. A good damper set up will not require an anti roll bar, and allied to a one spline front end drop you will improve handling and ride no end. Do not just find parts from other cars to fit to your Minor and hope that they will give an instant improvement, they won't, unless you have done your research to find out their particular dynamic properties, and their suitability to the Minor and not the donor vehicle be it Escort or Ital.
Axle location should also be a priority along with your damper choice. We favour triangulated radius arms on our axles, which locates the axles movement and eliminates axle tramp. Lastly if you are running a Fiat, K series or the like on the track then consider an anti roll bar, but only one designed to complement the suspension you have fitted

[Willie]

68' Jonathons advice is always worth listening to but, as you say your budget is limited(along with most of the rest of us) I advise you that I tried
various suspension mods one at a time and found the following to be the
most advantageous on a cost per mod basis. 1. Radial Ply tyres, transform
the car. 2. Front anti-roll bar, worth every penny. 3. rear telescopic dampers, great results but needs to be a properly designed kit. 4. front
telescopics, hardly noticed any difference! These were my findings on a bog
standard 1098 engine. If you are going to raise the power then it obviouslybecomes worth spending more on the more serious modifications.

[wanderinstar]

Roy,
Jonathon also mentioned LARGER DRUMS, did you miss that.
Ian.

[jonathon]

[jonathon]

[bmcecosse]

Oh I noticed ok - but no point in pushing things too far.

[minor_hickup]

I found just refreshing the oil in the dampers gave a huge differenc e in both ride and handling. They were all low and full of sludge so flushed them and changed the oil. I followed BMCEcosse's advice of using 20w50 to increase the damping effect (to much debate amongst board users. The car stopped rolling like a ship in a storm and went round corners like it was on rails (in comparison)! However I found that 20w50 in the rears gave the car a hard ride and caused the front to bounce a bit on really bumpy roads. So I changed the oil in the rears to standard and kept the 20w50 in the front dampers and the car really handles well, no plans to further uprate the suspension other than changing two leaky dampers, the car hardly rolls at all and I don't pootle about!

[aupickup]

watch that oil in the front dampers.

[bmcecosse]

Aye- you need to keep topping up for a while till all the air works it's way out. Bit surprised you found the rear 'hard' - with saloon 5 leaf springs - or did you fit the harder 7 leaf Traveller springs ?

[Kevin]

However I found that 20w50 in the rears gave the car a hard ride and caused the front to bounce a bit on really bumpy roads.

So that works well then.

no plans to further uprate the suspension other than changing two leaky dampers,

And that wont help things either.
And as its an Mot failure if you get stopped by the boys in blue it could cause problems.

[Onne]

Well, we all know now that the dampers were designed for completely different oil, and that you risk damage to the dampers.
Engine oil jsut isn't designed to be squeezed through tiny holes. It rips apart the oil, making it all horrible.

Onne

[minor_hickup]

Aye- you need to keep topping up for a while till all the air works it's way out. Bit surprised you found the rear 'hard' - with saloon 5 leaf springs - or did you fit the harder 7 leaf Traveller springs ?

Yeah I've kept an eye on them, I worked most of the air out when i changed the oil by bouncing the car up and down to expel air so they've barely gone down at all. Two do leak, but they work fine so I've just kept them topped up, its on my list of things to do but I believe they need changing in pairs, but the two are front left and rear right! So I need all new dampers.

As for the ride at the rear, I'm on 5 leaf springs, but in need of changing as they've gone rather flat. The 20w50 made the rear a bit hard unless i was 4 up on really bumpy roads (most round here!) and it seems to work better with the increased damping at the front. Which raises another question, for a saloon are the 7 leaf springs worthwhile? I notice bull motif are doing a 'do your roadsprings' kit for £89.

[bmcecosse]

Damper oil and engine oil are the SAME type - just different viscosity. Yes they get ripped up - the long chain molecules are broken down - hence good idea to change the oil from time to time. the old stuff usually smells terrible.
7 Leaf springs are obviously stronger - and better able to resist axle tramp, but will give a rougher ride. However if you travel 4 up I would have thought them ideal - but it's your choice.

[Willie]

As BMC says the seven leaf rear springs reduce the incidence of axle tramp
which can be a real pain even on a standard 1098 but certainly if you up the
power in any way. I found them too hard on my 1957 car and changed to
five leaf which improved the ride no end and,strangely, I do not suffer axle
tramp either! The five leaf are a step towards the ' Lotus' philosophy i.e,
soft suspension with extremely efficient damping.

[minor_hickup]

I rarely suffer axle tramp, but then again I go out of my way to avoid it given the horror stories I've heard of broken halfshafts!

I'm still not sure which to go for in terms of 5 or 7 leaf springs, I drive a lot of bumpy roads so if they're going to shake my bones I would preffer 5 leaf, but then again if there are any handling benefits in the 7 leaf springs it might be worth it, especially if Bull Motif are still doing their kit which contains 7 leaf springs.

[Onne]

Damper oil and engine oil are the SAME type

So, do you put engine oil in your jacks as well then? I don't see why you can't admit that they are completely different sorts of oil?

I am sure the designers knew what they were doing, and if they could have improved the handling, they would have changed to another suitable oil.

AND THEY ARE NOT THE SAME TYPE OF OIL, EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE BOTH MINERAL

Tomatoes and pears are both fruits, and those aren't the same

If you do want to stiffen up the suspension, why not use quick drying cement, that is mineral based too. Wouldn't be dangerous at all!

Onne

[minor_hickup]

The workshop manual does point out that a the dampers can be topped up with a mineral oil of SAE 20 or 20W, which I'm sure is thicker than jack oil.

[Onne]

well, thats not a multigrade oil like the engine oil, so a different beast alltogether

[bmcecosse]

Of course it's not a differnt beast - in the damper it's just not using the mutigrade effect of the 20W50 - but if you wish to buy straight 20 oil - then do so. In fact - I used to use straight 40 oil for many oil until the tin ran out - then I used EP90 in the rally car - but I don't really recommend that for road use - it did make the suspension quite jiggly. And yes - at work - we have many hand jacks (used in assembly jigs) and all are filled with engine oil.
It's time for you Onne to admit that engine oil (viscosity of personal choice) is fine in the dampers. Mr hickup confirms it from the manual!

[minor_hickup]

Which begs another question, would it be OK for the dampers to flush them with parrafin? I still have traces of the old gungy oil in mine despite flusing them many times.