Boxing Panel and Rear Arch

[aaroncollett]

At the bottom of my rear arches (the bit you see when you open the back door - clarified in case it is not actually called a rear arch ), there is some corrosion at the bottom. It has been repaired on both sides in the past, but is starting to go again. Whats more is that the boxing panel has started to go on the one side, and I can see from having a look through the boxing panel that there is a little bit of corrosion on the inner sill part that hides under the back seat. I also think that the boxing panel that hides behind the arch is a little corroded.

What are my options here?

I guess that if I remove the arch, I can get access to the corroded boxing panel, and if I remove the boxing panel, I can get access to the corrosion on the inner sill. The bit that I am not sure about is that the replacement boxing panel (and the original) runs all the way along the car, and behind the 'B' pillar. I don't really want to have to replace the whole thing. Is it usual to replace this boxing panel in parts, i.e. back and front?

Thanks for any input, Aaron.

[Willie]

The boxing panel extends to just rear of the 'B' pillar(on a 2 door) where it
is welded to another metal plate which extends right to the front edge of the
rear wheel arch. On my car this area was in a dreadful state and you would
certainly expect to find this if the lowest vertical face of the quarter panel
(at the bottom below the rear side windows) is rusting through from the inside.
To access this area it is necessary to slice off the bottom section of the rear
quarter panel but a preformed section is available for replacement. The sill
area extends from the rear of the front wheel arch to the front of the rear wheel arch. If the section under the door opening is poor then the same will
apply to the rest of the sill area.

[aaroncollett]

I have stripped all of the areas surrounding the boxing on my 4 door car. The boxing needs replacing on the drivers side because it is corroded on both the front and rear sections. I have taken the front inner wing off because it is being replaced. The lower rear arch is out because of corrosion, and will also be taken care of. I can see where the boxing is welded along the inner sill and 'door step' and can grind the weld off.

My question is how can I remove the boxing where it is on the 'B' pillar? What parts do I need to cut out to replace the full length of boxing with the minimal amount of cutting (on otherwise solid panels)?
Should I just cut the 'B' pillar away from the floor, boxing and the upper part of the inner sill, or is there a smarter way to go about it?

Thanks, Aaron

[SR]

not quite sure if ive got u right bruv, the upper part of the inner sill would rarely be bad enough to replace,its thick metal, if u do cut away the bottom of b post or anywhere ,leave as much as u can for reference points, check out my "villiage photos" weblink for many hopefully useful pics,u can c where i repaired the lower b post, its not a 4 door though,steve

[chickenjohn]

As steve said, if the top half of boxing panel is sound, then there is nothing wrong with cutting off the bottom rusty bit from the car, making a template and using this to cut the repair panel to suit. Then seam weld the bottom half of repair panel in place.

Perfectly acceptable and probably better than disurbing sound structure and B post.

Its a good idea to only remove as much metal as necessary to keep the shape of the car.

[Kevin]

The lower rear arch is out because of corrosion,

Oh dear I have heard that corrosion in 4 doors in this area can be a real so & so to sort out.

[aaroncollett]

Ok, so is it acceptable to leave the 'B' pillar and weld the new boxing panel (cut into two pieces appropriately) up to it rather than behind it?

The sill is solid, but the boxing is not which is why I need to replace it - though I am obviously a little reluctant to cut the 'B' unless I really have to.

Thanks, Aaron

[rayofleamington]

To do a belt and braces full replacement of the boxing plate involves diconnecting the bottom of the B-post. This is seriopus stuff and shouldn't be tackled lightly if you ever want doors to fit properly in future.

If the boxing plate is only rotted at the bottom, it can be replaced by letting in new metal (thick steel, welded properly - NOT just plated over)
However this depends on whether the boxing plate is solid behind the B-post. If it is then you can consider having it repaired the 'easier' way.

Oh dear I have heard that corrosion in 4 doors in this area can be a real so & so to sort out.

If the boxing plate is mainly ok apart from bottom edge and the areas behind the bottom of the C-post [the bit of rear arch you mention] then it is a simple job to cut it away and let in a section of thick steel here.
The hard job is to make a good repair of the C-post itself after you have cut it away to get to the guts of the sill/boxing plate. However repair sections are avalable and although they are not usually perfect, it makes the job a lot quicker than trying to hand make a repair section!

On my 54 the inner sill, inner step, boxing plate, wheel arch and bottom of C-post were all rotten, so at least I had good access for welding when the rot was cut away
After removing the inner sill (officially that is part of the floor) I could then get access to repair the inner step where it passes the rear seat box section. Most repairers will ignore this, however this is an important structural area and is right next to the spring hanger.

I'm just going to look for some pics of my car resto website... brb



Right - first pic montage shows cut away allowing repair of 'hidden' inner step area and the subsequent letting in of more metal.


Second pic montage shows the rest of the areas (there's a lot of sections meeting in this corner )
in the top left you'll spot that I've put a thick piece of steel to the boxing plate where it is 'hidden inside the C-post. I used thick steel to replace the bottom of the boxing plate but I was going for strength, not originality, and also with time constraints there was no chance to replace the boxing plate completely


My C-post repair section was pretty ugly but it wasn't done for looks. It could have been ground down a bit and filled to make it look good but I only had time to hammerite it and carry on with the next job.
Most of this area is hidden by the kick plate anyway and when the door is closed there is virtually none of it on show.
The wheel arch repairs and seams came out really well, but were hidden by the wing

[aaroncollett]

Thanks for those pics Ray, mine has gone in the same way.

The boxing section feels pretty solid behind the 'B' pillar. Having said that, in the two areas where it has really gone - at the front behind the inner wing, and at the back under the rotten arch, it has risen over half way up the boxing panel, and the parts that are concealed (or would be if the front inner wing and rear arch were solid) are completely gone. On the passenger side, just the hidden part of the rear feels weak, the front and all of the visible stuff is solid, so I will take care of that when I apply a new rear inner arch panel.

Ok, what are the risks of messing up the doors, and what (if anything) can be done to mitigate them? I am replacing both front inner wings and some other underneath panels, so I don't mind getting stuck in. However, if the risks are too high, I will take the 'easy' route.

Can I cut the boxing out up until the 'B' pillar, then get my new boxing section, cut it in two places (leaving the 'B' pillar area out), then just weld the two sections in to the appropriate places?

If in the future, I decide to sell this car, and buy another rolling resto to keep myself occupied , will the fact that the boxing had been split be frowned upon (by somebody who wants to take the time to take the car to pieces)?

BTW, I am getting a replacement arch panel (the one on the door side) from Charles Ware on Saturday, has anybody had one of these and how did it match up to the rest of the body?

Cheers, Aaron

[chickenjohn]

I would think whoever inspeced your car would be impressed that you actually fitted a boxing panel. Many folk just fold up sheet steel and weld it in the place of the boxing panel.

As long as the rust is removed and the welding good, I don't see what the problem would be- and you'll stand more chance of keeping the door gaps correct too.

I would brace the door gaps with thick angle iron to stop the gap closing up when more metal is removed.

[bigginger]

BTW, I am getting a replacement arch panel (the one on the door side) from Charles Ware on Saturday, has anybody had one of these and how did it match up to the rest of the body?

Cheers, Aaron

Haven't had one of those panels, but in the interests of avoiding law suits, all I should say is that I now prefer to buy my panels elsewhere...

[Cam]

Well, I have never bought Charles Ware's panels, but I have been more than happy with Hadrian panels bought from ESM or Bull Motif.

[aaroncollett]

I am quite happy with the panels I purchased from ESM as well, but they don't have the arch one, or the support brackets for the front inner wing to the cross member (where the dampers bolt)...

As far as the boxing is concerned, I think I am going to go with cutting it and placing the new one in as two pieces. Because of the number of times that door alignment has been mentioned, if I just cut at the 'B' pillar, do I need to take any other measures, or should it be ok? The joint to the floor and inner sill all look solid, but I guess that could change when the rest of the solid boxing is cut out...

As a seperate question, what should I be treating this with once it is done? I am going blast the underside of the car and get rid of all of the road grime, doing the same to the inner arches (thats the ones that aren't being replaced ) etc before the wings are refitted. I want to paint the inner arches in the same colour as the body, but should I put something else underneath it? What about the underside and inside the chassis? Once this car is done, I want to use it at least weekly, and don't want to be worried about taking it out during the winter months...

Thanks, Aaron

[rayofleamington]

Ok, what are the risks of messing up the doors, and what (if anything) can be done to mitigate them? I am replacing both front inner wings and some other underneath panels, so I don't mind getting stuck in. However, if the risks are too high, I will take the 'easy' route.

Because of the number of times that door alignment has been mentioned, if I just cut at the 'B' pillar, do I need to take any other measures, or should it be ok

Hmm... I know what I'd do, but not neccessarily exactly what I'd advise ;-)
On my 4 door I had the car on a rolling frame. e.g. when the left hand of the shell is under load and the right hand side of the shell is much less loaded when bits are cut out (and vice versa)
Also engine and box was removed to make sure car was lighter, thus reducing the load on the shell.
In addition to this I kept the doors on and did a trial fit of the door (made sure it closed smoothly onto the catch) after a section had been tacked in place to make sure nothing had moved.
Also I tried my best only to do a 'quarter' at a time (eg right hand front sill or right hand rear sill but not cut off the complete sill in one go). I'm not sure how much this helped as the original sills were weak anyway but after a LOT of rebuilding, the doors fitted just as well as they had before.

If the car is sitting on the wheels and you cut out a complete sill and boxing plate then there's much more chance of distortion.
The safest way is, of course to, brace the shell by adding some angle iron diagonals across the door posts and maybe even across the interior if you are removing a LOT of structure.

I've seen some bad repairs - not just by DIY, some of these were Minor Centre, where the door gaps were dreadful
I know of one car where the drivers door catch needed to be packed otherwise the latch didn't reach properly and you could open the door just by pushing it hard...

So, some of it is 'luck' but if you cut away a lot of structure without bracing, you are leaving more things to chance. If you do a lot of bracing, you are making thge job more complex. In the end it's up to you.

[SR]

myself, i would weld up new sill/structural area while its on its wheels , i dont think i could see the door/template properly from above, once sills are done then i rolled over for floorpans and chassis legs ect.....

[rayofleamington]

i dont think i could see the door/template properly from above,

yes - that isn't too straight forward! I built myslf stacks of wheels so i could stand 3 feet off the ground, and being 6 feet tall that was enough for getting a good view (and also for a fair bit of the car work - rolling frames are great but put the sills and door posts up in the sky )