Help with Hif carb fitted to a+ 1300cc engine Please

Post by **mymatespickup** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 10:19 am

Hi all.

My First post for a while.And its a long one,sorry.
My mates pickup is coming on very well.

We have fitted the sierra 5 speed box and the rebuilt a+ Ital engine.

We have fitted the engine with a 3 branch exhuast and a water heated inlet manifold.

The car has an electric fuel pump as per standered.

I have made a breather with a small k+n filter for better breathing which is fitted to were the mechanical fuel pump blank would of been.

The front timing case has also got the modified breather cylinder and the rubber pipe is conected to the relevent fitting on the carb.

The carb fitted is a Ital hif type off the same original engine..

Having conected the fuel line from the pump/breather and the advance and retard vacume.

There appears to be a spare fuel connection/pipe? which we don't know wether it is a return pipe of some sort or vent.Or a return to the original air pan?(we do not have the original air filter set up)

We have an after market K+N style filter fitted

We have checked with the Haynes SU carb manual and we are none of the wiser as to what to do with this extra pipe or vent..

The carb is marked on the body JTX and also marked Pd c1.There is no identity tag on the carb.

We tested the fuel pump was working and the fuel itself started to come out of this pipe or vent?.We then blocked it off with a tube with a bolt inside before we carried on any further.

The problem we have is when we started the engine up it ran fine if you kept the revs higher than tickover but would cut out if left alone .It revved up and down great but seemed very sooty at the exhaust until we let it idle.

The next thing while we were setting the tick over ,the fuel started leaking out of the throttle body at the filter end ,onto the 3 branch.
We then very quickly turned it off and diconnected the battery and fuel pump wire.

We are not entirely sure what the problem is and that there may be something missing from the carburreters original airpan or something.

We then took the carb off and checked the needle valve was working by blowing down the fuel pipe connection and turning it upside down and it seems to be working fine.But this still could have an incorrect float setting i know .

Could it be the k+n airfilters rubber gasket be causing the problem?As there are holes around the mouth of the carb which are being bloked by the k+n style filters rubber gasket?I do not mean the mounting bolt holes.

Im sticking to welding and grinding for a while i think.

Any help and advice as to what could be the problem would be great and very appriciated..

I will add a few pictures in my next post so you have an idea of what i am talking about thanks ,Tim.

Post by **Innovator** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 10:29 am

The holes in the carb face should not be blocked. Are the air filters actually K&N? The reason why I wonder is they know what they are doing and the gaskets and back plate will have the correct holes. Plus the gaskets are normally cork.

The extra pipe you refer to is possibly the over flow from the float chamber. This comes into play when the needle valve in the float chamber gets dirt in it. The solution is to take the base of the carb and clean out the float. In fact while you are on its worth rebuilding the carb. £20 I think will get the parts from Burlen (spelling?).

Then get the car to a rolling road ASAP.

John

Post by **mymatespickup** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 10:34 am

The center brass pipe on this picture is the one where the fuel was coming out of.

If so it is blocked by the rubber gasket on this k+n style filter.

Heres the linkage side.

And the breathers.

Any help or clues would be great.

Thanks again Tim

Post by **mymatespickup** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 10:40 am

Hi John the Tiny airfilter which is on the stack i have made, where the mechanical petrol pump would fit, is a Genuine K+N.

But the carburetters air filter is not a genuine k+n.

Thanks for your advice on the rebuild kit.That would benifit the carb anyway.

Rolling road too would be a very good idea when the leaks are soughted.

Best regards ,Tim

Post by **Kevin** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 10:46 am

In case you dont know where to get a kit
http://www.burlen.co.uk/

Post by **mymatespickup** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 10:52 am

Great !!
Many thanks Kevin and John for that.

I'll have a proper look at that and pass the details on to my mate..

Thanks ,Tim

Post by **Innovator** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 12:21 pm

Yes that pipe is the overflow, definitly a stuck needle valve in the float chamber.

John

Post by **chrisd87** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 12:24 pm

The ex-metro HIF carb I have lying around has a little plastic canister with something to absorb the overflow attached to that point. Perhaps you need one of these too to avoid risk of fire?

Post by **mymatespickup** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 12:46 pm

Thanks Lads,.
Do you know if you get the needle valve and a new seat in the repair kit?
I'll have another look on the berlen website.
Its sound like a very good idea to have something absorbing the fuel also.
Another mate of mine who is mad on motorcycles said some motorbike carbs have the over flow just running to the floor from a pipe?
I personally do not like the idea myself.
I will pass all the details on to my mate.
Many thanks again.

Tim

Post by **Stig** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 1:29 pm

chrisd87 wrote:The ex-metro HIF carb I have lying around has a little plastic canister with something to absorb the overflow attached to that point. Perhaps you need one of these too to avoid risk of fire?

Same on my ex-metro carb, I assumed it was just a filter to stop dirt getting in though. You certainly don't want petrol getting on the tyres from a stuck valve - it's very slippery stuff. My brother once trashed a brand new set of tyres due to bouncing off a roundabout & kerb after a needle valve stuck open on his MG Midget - he was not a happy bunny!
I suppose you could rig up a catch bottle at least temporarily.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 1:50 pm

Yes overflow goes to ground - some have a little filter on there to keep dirt out I guess. Are you sure you aren't perhaps pumping fuel in the 'overflow' - and it's running out the normal 'fill' pipe ? There is also a connection for one of the engine breathers - obviously fuel must not go in there. For performance use - don't connect the water heating on the manifold - it want's to be as cold as possible.

Post by **mymatespickup** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 3:04 pm

Hi Stig28.Sorry to here about you brothers mg,sound advice from you there thanks.

Hi bmcecosse ,yes we do have the inlet for the fuel on the correct position.

We were able to judge this as we have another rarther scruffy looking carb with the original pipe on it which ran to the mechanical fuel pump.

And also in the haynes manual for the ital it can be clearly seen running down to to the mechanical fuel pump from here.

But no indication as to where the pipe in question is leading to.Where the fuel is coming out of.

We have the correct position for the breather pipe also.

Thanks for your advice on the water heater pipe too, Tim.

Post by **Packedup** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 3:09 pm

That extra pipe is indeed the vent/ overflow. On the Metro there's a hose goes from it into a metal line that goes round the front of the bellhousing and exits under the engine/ box area.

Fuel most certainly should not be coming out of it, so it's time to take it off and pop the float cover off the bottom, clean things up replace where ncessary.

Post by **mymatespickup** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 3:15 pm

Thanks Packedup.

I will take that on board.

I will get in touch with my mate tonight and tell him to get the nessasary spare parts ordered to overhall the carb.

Many thanks to every ones help on this one.
Tim

Post by **plastic_orange** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 4:10 pm

You will probably find that float is burst/leaking - quite a common fault - same thing happened on my P6 Rover - 10 minute job to fix, but you are just as well getting a full rebuild kit from Burlen - they will need carb ID number though.

Pete

Post by **bmcecosse** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 11:46 pm

Try it without the K&N filter - or the gasket - in place. If any of these holes are obstructed there could be strange going-ons inside the carb. HIF is usually very reliable - much more so than the earlier SUs.

Post by **mymatespickup** » Sat Jun 24, 2006 7:41 pm

Hi Pete.Thanks for the information on the float.He checked it and it was fine thanks.

And thanks also to bmcecosse again for your excellent advice.

I passed all your excellent comments on this problem to my mate late last night and he would like to say many thanks to you all for your help.

He duly was up at the crack of dawn this morning removing and striping down the carb.

He found that it was caked in dirt and and set about stripping it down and cleaning out the carb.

Whilst looking through his spare parts for his mini's he has ,he found a brand new needle valve and seat for the carb.

Unbelievable result that i say as when i went round this afternoon he was just connecting up the throttle and choke cables.After the rebuild.

We cranked it over and it fired first time.
With no signs of any leaks what so ever .Perfect!!

We had a rubber pipe from the vent running away from the manifold and there are no leaks what so ever.
Excellent.

He fould some new copper pipe which we will set up as a proper drain away to the floor next time we are working on it.It won't be tommorrow as footys on

After a little turn of the distibutor and a little play with the mixture screw and tickover it is running very sweet. Good enough till its finished and then he can take it to be tuned when its on the road.

So many thanks for everyones help here with this one.

Well whats next...Should rearly do another help post i think.
Its regarding the kenlow fan we are fitting.

Best regards to everyone.Great this forum..superb.

Tim