Brake Hoses

Post by **Willie** » Mon May 08, 2006 10:47 am

Your opinions would be appreciated. I am swotting up on the various disc
brake kits and have come across one where it states that the flexible brake
hoses' have swivel joints to prevent twisting'. This strikes me as a potential
leak point in the system and not really necessary. Am I wrong to be worried?

Post by **rayofleamington** » Mon May 08, 2006 11:02 am

I've seen a fair few hydraulic hoses with swivel joints, and they seem pretty robust, but as with all things it will depend on how well engineered these particular ones are.
I presume these are heavily braided hoses, if they need to prevent twist passing into the hose. Personally I would expect the average braking pressure to be reduced when using disks compared to drums, so braided hoses would be a 'nice to have' rather than mandatory.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Mon May 08, 2006 8:55 pm

The pressure with discs is usually higher - hence the tendency to also fit a servo to keep pedal force down. Drums have a useful 'self servo' action (leading shoe ones that is ) which discs of course do not! Never heard of swiveling flexi hoses - they usually just flex!

Post by **rayofleamington** » Mon May 08, 2006 9:08 pm

The pressure with discs is usually higher

how so?? Surely they need less effort due to the greater mechanical ratio?

Post by **Willie** » Mon May 08, 2006 9:17 pm

BMC, I had never heard of swivelling brake hoses either which is why I am asking for advice as to their reliability. The pressure is less on disc systems
I believe, and,yes RAY they are stainless braided hoses and thankyou for your comments. I wonder if Jonathon would even consider them for his brake systems?? BMC,further to the pressure question, remember that the
designed residual pressure of approx 8lbs psi? on the Minor is too much for
a disc set up as it operates the pads but does not operate the shoes.

Post by **Cam** » Mon May 08, 2006 9:35 pm

Willie, Jonathon does indeed do braided brake hoses and I have bought some off him when I bought his disc brake kit. I had SERIOUS problems with my Owen Burton Ford kit (bought from Birmingham). Discs warping and problems fitting. Also you need to drill out the backplate mounting holes with that kit.

In the end I got so fed up that I just bought another kit from JLH and (apart from having to buy new suspension uprights due to the previously enlarged holes) it went on like a dream. The quality difference is staggering. If I were you and you value properly engineered products then I can recommend the JLH kit. Once I fitted that all the previous problems vanished.

Post by **Willie** » Mon May 08, 2006 9:40 pm

Thanks Cam but I am seeking advice on braided hoses with a swivelling
joint in them ? Does your JLH kit use them?

Post by **Cam** » Mon May 08, 2006 9:43 pm

No I think they are standard. Actually, I did not fit them as I used the 'normal' hoses and calipers from the Owen Burton kit (as they are the same and I had them anyway). My car has been great with the 'standard' hoses. Why do you need/want swivelling ones?

Post by **Willie** » Mon May 08, 2006 9:46 pm

Exactly, why introduce another potential failure point if it is not necessary.
i.e. why has this disc brake kit supplier opted for hoses with a swivel joint in
them?

Post by **bigginger** » Mon May 08, 2006 9:47 pm

They're just plain Goodridge braided hoses - I'm sure JLH will know more about the swivelling ones though.

Post by **Packedup** » Mon May 08, 2006 9:49 pm

I've never even heard of swivel flexis, let alone seen them!

I've read mixed opinions of braided hoses - On the one hand they reduce swelling thereby putting more of the pressure where it's needed and reducing pedal travel, but they prevent visual inspection of the acutal rubber hose and I think there can be issues if/ when the braiding starts to fail with age. Surely just using the right length of hose with the right supports where necessary is good enough whether braided or not though?

As for pedal pressure on drums v discs, I thought drums had a sort of "self servo" action, and are really quire good at stopping until they get hot, which is where discs have the real advantage (due to better heat dissipation)?

Post by **Cam** » Mon May 08, 2006 9:50 pm

Willie wrote:Exactly, why introduce another potential failure point if it is not necessary.
i.e. why has this disc brake kit supplier opted for hoses with a swivel joint in
them?

Agreed. I have not come across them before.

Post by **rayofleamington** » Mon May 08, 2006 9:54 pm

As for pedal pressure on drums v discs, I thought drums had a sort of "self servo"

Well, we're going rather off topic but just look at the different area of a disk caliper piston compared to a pair of drum pistons. Caliper pistons are normally a fair bit bigger giving more lever ratio and therefore requiring lower pressure. As the overall travel is less this compensates a bit for the bigger area, otherwise you'd have to push the pedal a lot further.

Post by **jonathon** » Mon May 08, 2006 9:55 pm

Yes we are guilty as charged. We have started doing swivel ended braided hoses. Rest assured these are of a very high quality and are not prone to failure as the swivel is an seperate fitting and not part of the actual braided pipe. The reason we employ this system is ease of fit i.e you can fit the chassis end of the pipe then just tighten up the caliper end in the knowledge that you will not kink or need to check the pipe for alignment once its tight.Its amazing just how easy these swivels make the fitting of the disc kit. We now supply a few traders who also fit (not just sell) our kits and they are also suitably impressed.

Hope this helps

Post by **rayofleamington** » Mon May 08, 2006 9:56 pm

The reason we employ this system is ease of fit

- obvious now you've said it!

Post by **Willie** » Mon May 08, 2006 9:58 pm

Great, I wondered when you would come in on this! If they are good enough
for your products then they must be good. IN one day have gone from 'never heard of them' to having them fully endorsed. ( I was referring to a
different supplier than JLH by the way).

Post by **jonathon** » Mon May 08, 2006 9:59 pm

Our braided hoses are not rubber hoses covered in braid they are proper PTFE (think thats right) a fleible strong nylon type material.

Post by **jonathon** » Mon May 08, 2006 10:09 pm

Who was the supplier Willie, we now supply Bull Motif , Mid Sussex Minors and Minor Miracles. We also supply just hoses to B'ham MMC. We hope to expand this with both the current kit and a soon to be released entry level kit. Re, braided hoses if you wish to see a pic I can take one for you, just need an e-mail address to send it on .

Post by **Willie** » Mon May 08, 2006 10:39 pm

Jonathon, it was Bull Motifs web site that I was looking at so they were yours
all the time!

Post by **jonathon** » Mon May 08, 2006 10:44 pm

Ah ha there's no way to get away from me now!!!

Morris Minor Owners Club

Brake Hoses

Brake Hoses

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braided

hoses

Re: hoses

swivels

hoses