Im buying my first Morris, a 1955 Splitscreen which has a 948cc engine fitted.
Its making noises indicating trouble with the big end. It only starts when the engine is warm, and under load.
The current owner had a mechanic look at it and he recommended that it wasn't driven without a full re-build (at the cost of £800).
Is this really going to be the case? we had a test drive, and it didn't have any problems getting upto 70mph up a hill with 4 adults in it!
I had a mechanic take a look, and he suggested that it would probably be sorted by replacing the bearings on the big ends.
As the engine is running ok he suggested that it is not an immediate concern, and i should concentrate on the body work/interior first.
Has anyone got any experience with this problem? and how long the engine will last in this condition?
Please advise...
Big end noise
Forum rules
By using this site, you agree to our rules. Please see: Terms of Use
By using this site, you agree to our rules. Please see: Terms of Use
Re: Big end noise
winger300 wrote: we had a test drive, and it didn't have any problems getting upto 70mph up a hill with 4 adults in it!
I had a mechanic take a look, and he suggested that it would probably be sorted by replacing the bearings on the big ends.
Please advise...
id have said "buy that car" - if the engine can do that and the big end has gone it must be the best there ever was
seriously - i dunno. though i had a 1098 saloon that was making a racket from the bottom when we bought it and we did over 6k before it died .... but it could be something TOTALLY different.
cheers
grainger
-
winger300
- Minor Fan
- Posts: 358
- Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 5:54 pm
- Location: Stockport, Manchester
- MMOC Member: No
thanks for the reply.
Whats the worst that can happen if and when it completely packs up? and will it become really obvious that its about to go? At the moment its just a rumble and i've been told that most morris engines will do that. But the present owner hasn't driven it for two months due to this problem.
I heard talk of the piston rods "popping out" of the engine casting! perhaps that is a little exagerated.
So whats my best course of action? Open it up and replace the shells, or see how it goes for now.
Whats the worst that can happen if and when it completely packs up? and will it become really obvious that its about to go? At the moment its just a rumble and i've been told that most morris engines will do that. But the present owner hasn't driven it for two months due to this problem.
I heard talk of the piston rods "popping out" of the engine casting! perhaps that is a little exagerated.
So whats my best course of action? Open it up and replace the shells, or see how it goes for now.
-
Gareth
- Minor Legend
- Posts: 1033
- Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2002 12:00 am
- Location: Hallow, Worcestershire
- MMOC Member: Yes
If you're confident to replace the shells, and have a poke about, then do it yourself when you have the time and inclination. The parts can't be that expensive, and if you're not scared by the view from inside a piston sleeve (which I am!!!) then go for it.
If you'd need to pay someone to do a total engine swap for you, you may as well take it gently for now, and when it goes pop, whack a recon engine in.
Also, get a Minor specialist (or a club memeber) to have a drive in it, and they'll be able to give you a fair idea of the condition. If somethings wrong, they're bound to notice it, rather than a mechanic who wants to squeeze more money out of you!
As grainger says, if it's doing 70 with 4 up, there can't be all that much wrong with it - the A-series generally gives plenty of warning before it goes pop. If the noises get a lot louder (especially if they do it suddenly) then maybe it's time to think about getting something done.
Good luck and...
If you'd need to pay someone to do a total engine swap for you, you may as well take it gently for now, and when it goes pop, whack a recon engine in.
Also, get a Minor specialist (or a club memeber) to have a drive in it, and they'll be able to give you a fair idea of the condition. If somethings wrong, they're bound to notice it, rather than a mechanic who wants to squeeze more money out of you!
As grainger says, if it's doing 70 with 4 up, there can't be all that much wrong with it - the A-series generally gives plenty of warning before it goes pop. If the noises get a lot louder (especially if they do it suddenly) then maybe it's time to think about getting something done.
Good luck and...
Happy Minoring!
Phyllis ~ 1962 Morris Minor 4 Door Deluxe
Black coachwork with Red Duo-Tone Upholstery
Phyllis ~ 1962 Morris Minor 4 Door Deluxe
Black coachwork with Red Duo-Tone Upholstery
-
Kevin
- Moderator
- Posts: 7592
- Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2002 12:00 am
- Location: Watford, Hertfordshire.
- MMOC Member: No
The pistons can come through the block but only if you suffer from a complete seizure at a fair speedI heard talk of the piston rods "popping out" of the engine casting! perhaps that is a little exagerated.
I currently have knocking big ends
(they are past the rumbling stage) which rattle under start up momentarily and then once the car is warm it then does it under even lightish loads at various speeds over 30 MPH and if I stab the accelerator it goes through the knocking put comes back futher up the rev range, I am not suffering from any exhaust smoke at any speed and my oil light is still as normal, however the noise is slowly getting louder 
As yours sounds like it at the very early stages and all else sounds OK I would have a look at just replacing the Big End Shells, this can be done without taking the engine out as there is enough clearance for the sump to some off in situ so dont let someone convince you its an engine out job ITS NOT.
What actually contributed to finishing mine off was the fact that the oil filter housing no longer had the large support washer for the filter in it (when I got the car it had just had an oil change !) and on removing the housing as I was going to change to a Mini screw on type the back of the housing had a nice collection of metal bits because the filter had been sitting too low in its housing to be doing its job properly, so also check that its still there at the same time.
Cheers
Kevin
Lovejoy 1968 Smoke Grey Traveller (gone to a new home after13 years)
Herts Branch Member
Moderator MMOC 44706
Kevin
Lovejoy 1968 Smoke Grey Traveller (gone to a new home after13 years)
Herts Branch Member
Moderator MMOC 44706
-
winger300
- Minor Fan
- Posts: 358
- Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 5:54 pm
- Location: Stockport, Manchester
- MMOC Member: No
This all sounds promising.
The current owner has offered me a 1098cc engine and gearbox also. Its currently in another moggy, so i could do the swap over if things get really bad.
So what do i need to do when replacing the shells?
When i remove the sump, does this give good access to the ends of the piston rods. I assume then the bottom part un-bolts and the shells are in two peices?
How do i know which size shells to replace them with? And when i have it all open will the pistons all fall out? or are they held in by some other means?
Putting it back together, i assume i have to replace the gasket seals?
The current owner has offered me a 1098cc engine and gearbox also. Its currently in another moggy, so i could do the swap over if things get really bad.
So what do i need to do when replacing the shells?
When i remove the sump, does this give good access to the ends of the piston rods. I assume then the bottom part un-bolts and the shells are in two peices?
How do i know which size shells to replace them with? And when i have it all open will the pistons all fall out? or are they held in by some other means?
Putting it back together, i assume i have to replace the gasket seals?
-
paulg
- Minor Friendly
- Posts: 47
- Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2003 12:46 pm
- Location: Hampshire
- MMOC Member: No
The pistons won't fallout.
This is a job that is fairly easily done at home.
To replace the end shells only :
Drain off the engine oil.
Just clean off the bottom before you start - makes it a cleaner job.
Slacken off the sump bolts in diagonal sequence.
Remove the sump.
If you are keeping the head on it is best to do the two con rods at the bottom of the stroke first, then rotate the eningine to get the other two at the bottom.
Bend back the washers on the con rod split bottom. Undo the bolts.
Remove the ends by a bit of manipulation. Clean up any foulness in the conrod.
Look for scoring wera in the ends - altyhough they are so cheap just replace them!
Call up your local Minor specialist or motor engineering place and order what you have taken off.
Replace two at a time after smearing 20/50 over them and retighten bolts, bend washers back (should really use new ones!).
Refit sump with new gasket - the semicircle at the front of the engine can be tricky.
Refill with oil.
Dry test the rotation.
You will need to check torque settings for the bolts etc - can't rememberwhat they are.
This should fix you problem a (if the ends are worn).
Not an expensive job ... but not a real overhaul either!
This is a job that is fairly easily done at home.
To replace the end shells only :
Drain off the engine oil.
Just clean off the bottom before you start - makes it a cleaner job.
Slacken off the sump bolts in diagonal sequence.
Remove the sump.
If you are keeping the head on it is best to do the two con rods at the bottom of the stroke first, then rotate the eningine to get the other two at the bottom.
Bend back the washers on the con rod split bottom. Undo the bolts.
Remove the ends by a bit of manipulation. Clean up any foulness in the conrod.
Look for scoring wera in the ends - altyhough they are so cheap just replace them!
Call up your local Minor specialist or motor engineering place and order what you have taken off.
Replace two at a time after smearing 20/50 over them and retighten bolts, bend washers back (should really use new ones!).
Refit sump with new gasket - the semicircle at the front of the engine can be tricky.
Refill with oil.
Dry test the rotation.
You will need to check torque settings for the bolts etc - can't rememberwhat they are.
This should fix you problem a (if the ends are worn).
Not an expensive job ... but not a real overhaul either!
-
ianselva
- Minor Friendly
- Posts: 94
- Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2002 12:00 am
- Location: Middle Barton , Oxfordshire
- MMOC Member: No
Changing the big end shells only in a worn engine is only going to prolong its life by maybe a few hundred miles. You will be still running on the same worn main bearings and the oil pump will be long past it's best with all that debris running through it. Far better run it till it drops and then change the lot.
-
Chris Morley
- Moderator
- Posts: 898
- Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2002 12:00 am
- Location: Berkshire
- MMOC Member: No
Am I the only one wondering why you're intent on buying a car with a major fault that will require a lot of work? I would walk away.Why do you think the present owner wants to be rid of it.... Is he/she offering a big discount on the list price and are you willing to cough up a lot more money to fix it?
A 1098cc engine would be a big improvement if the car already had one. Ask him to fit the 1098cc engine and gearbox (not so easy as you need to alter the gearbox shroud, swap the rear end diff and update the front with 1098cc brakes) and offer a little extra.
A 1098cc engine would be a big improvement if the car already had one. Ask him to fit the 1098cc engine and gearbox (not so easy as you need to alter the gearbox shroud, swap the rear end diff and update the front with 1098cc brakes) and offer a little extra.
-
Cam
- Moderator
- Posts: 5109
- Joined: Mon May 20, 2002 1:00 am
- Location: Stoke-on-Trent, Staffordshire, UK
- MMOC Member: No
Before you buy any replacement shells, you need to know if the crank has been reground (i.e. reconditioned) before, otherwise they will be slack and you will have a worse problem. Really, after you have removed the con-rod you are best getting a micrometer (cheap from Machine Mart) and checking the diameter of the journal to see if it has been reground. If it has then you can order the correct oversize shells for it.
As Ian says, you are only prolonging the engine for a while anyway as the pump and mains are probably knackered as well! If you are serious about Moggies and intend to have one for a good while, I would either completely rebuild the engine or buy a reconditioned unit from a REPUTABLE place (they are NOT all the same!)
As Ian says, you are only prolonging the engine for a while anyway as the pump and mains are probably knackered as well! If you are serious about Moggies and intend to have one for a good while, I would either completely rebuild the engine or buy a reconditioned unit from a REPUTABLE place (they are NOT all the same!)
Websites: 
-
Willie
- Minor Legend
- Posts: 3204
- Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2002 12:00 am
- Location: S E London
- MMOC Member: No
big ends
If you did get around to removing the big end shells
then the size will be printed on the back,i.e. +20 or
similar this will tell you what size to buy. BUT,as stated,
if the crank shaft journals are scored IN ANY WAY then the
new shells will not last very long. I replaced shells on
worn journals once and they lasted 130 miles!!! waste
of time.
then the size will be printed on the back,i.e. +20 or
similar this will tell you what size to buy. BUT,as stated,
if the crank shaft journals are scored IN ANY WAY then the
new shells will not last very long. I replaced shells on
worn journals once and they lasted 130 miles!!! waste
of time.
Willie
[img]http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e197/wuzerk/mo9.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e197/wuzerk/mo9.jpg[/img]
I'm with you Chris, especially as Winger has mentioned body and interior work also needed, not a good introduction to Minors, could put you off for life! Regarding getting the seller to install the 1098 unit, I would be very suprised if it would be done with care and attention, dont forget he has lost interest in the car if it is being sold in that condition.
-
winger300
- Minor Fan
- Posts: 358
- Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 5:54 pm
- Location: Stockport, Manchester
- MMOC Member: No
The body work is actually in pretty good condition. Only signs of rust are on a front wing and bonnet, bother of which the owner has replacement panels (albeit in a different colour).
The body has been undersealed also.
The headlining, seats and carpets need fixing, but the owner has three spare front seats for me.
Everything else on the car is sound, the present owner is a good friend of mine, so he's been pretty honest as to what needs fixing.
Im paying £550 for the car, and also a 60's minor which i can take anything from for spares. So i dont think its too bad a deal....
fixing stuff is all part of the fun!
The body has been undersealed also.
The headlining, seats and carpets need fixing, but the owner has three spare front seats for me.
Everything else on the car is sound, the present owner is a good friend of mine, so he's been pretty honest as to what needs fixing.
Im paying £550 for the car, and also a 60's minor which i can take anything from for spares. So i dont think its too bad a deal....
fixing stuff is all part of the fun!
-
Chris Morley
- Moderator
- Posts: 898
- Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2002 12:00 am
- Location: Berkshire
- MMOC Member: No
Sorry if you thought I was being a bit rude about your friend, only we've had quite a few people posting on the site who paid good money for a rust buckets or wrecks. Like Les I prefer to let new posters know what they are getting into. I had visions of you paying 2k+ for a car needing a lot of work.
£550 is a fair price for the car as described and other bits, assuming the floorpan is solid. If you enjoy getting oily and finding out how to pull these cars apart ( it's all basic nuts and bolts) then go for it.
If the car still had the original 803cc engine I would suggest rebuilding for originality. However as it's no longer original you could just swap the entire drivetrain, engine, gearbox and front hubs/drums from the 1098cc car and enjoy better performance.
£550 is a fair price for the car as described and other bits, assuming the floorpan is solid. If you enjoy getting oily and finding out how to pull these cars apart ( it's all basic nuts and bolts) then go for it.
If the car still had the original 803cc engine I would suggest rebuilding for originality. However as it's no longer original you could just swap the entire drivetrain, engine, gearbox and front hubs/drums from the 1098cc car and enjoy better performance.
hi winger
£550 sounds well worth it - but dont presume the underseal isnt hiding something. i paid 2k for a traveller off a 'mate' at xmas, it cost me the same again to get the chassis through an mot, that all looked very neat covered in underseal. suffice to say i dont see much of that 'mate' anymore
there are known rust traps on them - check under the back seat and over the rear wheel arches with a screwdriver ... but even if it cost YOU 2k to put it right its not a bad price for a lovely old split screen
good luck
grainger
£550 sounds well worth it - but dont presume the underseal isnt hiding something. i paid 2k for a traveller off a 'mate' at xmas, it cost me the same again to get the chassis through an mot, that all looked very neat covered in underseal.
suffice to say i dont see much of that 'mate' anymorethere are known rust traps on them - check under the back seat and over the rear wheel arches with a screwdriver ... but even if it cost YOU 2k to put it right its not a bad price for a lovely old split screen
good luck
grainger
-
winger300
- Minor Fan
- Posts: 358
- Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 5:54 pm
- Location: Stockport, Manchester
- MMOC Member: No
hello again.
I took the 1098cc engine out of an old Morris today, along with the gearbox.
Not bad i thought for someone with absolutely no experience.
Do i really actually need the rear diff from this car? The current engine is a 948cc, surely it will work ok?? no?
I guess the current brakes will still be ok, perhaps i will get disc conversions at some point.
I suppose the best thing to do now is drive the old engine into the ground, and then swap over the engines if and when that happens.
I took the 1098cc engine out of an old Morris today, along with the gearbox.
Not bad i thought for someone with absolutely no experience.
Do i really actually need the rear diff from this car? The current engine is a 948cc, surely it will work ok?? no?
I guess the current brakes will still be ok, perhaps i will get disc conversions at some point.
I suppose the best thing to do now is drive the old engine into the ground, and then swap over the engines if and when that happens.
-
Chris Morley
- Moderator
- Posts: 898
- Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2002 12:00 am
- Location: Berkshire
- MMOC Member: No
The 948cc diff / halfshafts are designed to handle 37 bhp - the 1098 gives 48 bhp (a 30% increase). I would guess the increase in power will break something eventually - probably the halfshafts. Cam will probably know exactly what it can handle. Also the 948 diff is higher geared, so the car will have good acceleration around town, but will be slower and nosier on Motorways than the normal 1098cc.
The 1098cc got bigger front drums to cope with the higher speeds the car was capable of. If you change to disks when you fit the 1098cc there will be no problem, but an insurance company won't be at all happy if you retain the 1949 spec 7 inch drums. I would get the 1098cc hubs & 8 inch drums from the scrap car. If you don't use them because you fit discs then sell them on.
The 1098cc got bigger front drums to cope with the higher speeds the car was capable of. If you change to disks when you fit the 1098cc there will be no problem, but an insurance company won't be at all happy if you retain the 1949 spec 7 inch drums. I would get the 1098cc hubs & 8 inch drums from the scrap car. If you don't use them because you fit discs then sell them on.