Morris Minor Owners Club

Hi (again).

Looking to check that what I think I need to do is the right approach....

In the photo you can see that cross-member bolt is loose (circled in thick green) - this is how the car was when my son bought it. I want to fix this before it goes on the road again - I've read that it is most likely the captive nut has come away from the box section. The Nut from what I understand is below the brake master cylinder so that needs to come out (?). To remove the brake master cylinder you undo two brake lines going into it and unscrew two bolts one the side of the box section. I've circled what I think is the two bolt heads in the second photo (is that right?). But the torsion bar is in the way right? So I read that you can (somehow) bend the bar away enough to get the bolts away from the master cylinder in order to move the cylinder backward in the section to clear both bolts and push rod and remove it.... thus allowing you to fix the captive nut issue....

Looking at it a bit further I can see that the bolts go all the way through and out the other side (as per picture). So I actually need to bend the bar down rather than away which what I first thought. Also wondering if I'm better off removing the transmission cover as well may make it easier to remove the brake pipes...

The crossmember problem can be better fixed by dropping a 6mm plate, (covered in grease or similar) with the appropriate threaded holes, into the chassis leg, after removing the remaining nut retaining cages ( the bottom of the leg needs to be flat and clean) The torsion bar can be levered to give clearance.
I’m not sure what that opening in the bottom of the leg is for but maybe that also needs sorting before it goes on the road.

If you have standard brakes, then to remove the MC, you need to remove both front and rear pipes. To just slide it, you might get away with removing just the side entry pipe, but be careful to not bend or stress the rear pipe. Yes, the torsion bar will flex enough to remove the bolts. If you search on here, you should find several versions of a home-made tool to do this safely, but in extremes, you can use any form of lever.

Looking at your chassis leg, I suspect that it would benefit from a replacement section as it looks rather rusty and distorted. That hole nearer the front is not standard , but it looks as though there is some sort of clevis pin linkage sticking through it,

I would suggest that you remove the brake master cylinder floor covering and determine what the additional linkage is about.
Posting photos of the master cylinder/the inside of the chassis leg and brake pedal linkage on here would be very useful.
The original master cylinder may not be in the chassis leg. It may be that an alternative brake master cylinder and linkage has been fitted possibly born out by the linkage poking through the bottom of the chassis leg.

Oh this is an interesting turn. I've attached a photo showing master cylinder from the top. Not sure if it shows enough. We're new to Minors so had no idea this wasn't normal - although I did think it an odd design.

I've just been out and had a look - It's looks like it has been modified at some point. A slab of steel welded onto the original pedal and a return spring clips onto that. and it also sticks out of the bottom of the box section as previously seen. Can't get a great photo on the dark but had a go.

When you fix the crossmember issue, you would do well to take the opportunity to source some original parts and put that linkage arrangement back to standard. I don’t know how keen you are to go any further but sorting out that hole someone has hacked out would be an idea, apart from a structural point of view, it will fill with water and cause more corrosion. The master cylinder is also different in looks to the standard item but presumably that works ok.

Thank you for posting the photos.
Why anyone would butcher the bottom of the chassis leg is beyond me. They have also cut away the floor above pipe unions at the rear of the master cylinder.
The brake pedal is bent out of alignment and appears to have been rubbing the floor cover. The master cylinder operating rod yoke seems to be attached to the side of the welded on piece of metal instead of the yoke fitting around the pedal lever.
The master cylinder does not look like a Morris Minor item, it could be a MG item which is similar but requires the mounting bosses to be narrowed. The bosses may have been narrowed which threw the master cylinder off center which then required the bracket to be welding on to return the master cylinder push rod to center place/alignment.
There was for a short time when Minor master cylinders were not available, a alternative master cylinder could have been utilized to get round the problem but there is no excuse for butchering the bottom of the chassis leg.
As Les has recommended replace the brake pedal linkage with the correct parts and do get that hole in the bottom of the chassis leg repaired.
Phil

les wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 10:30 pm When you fix the crossmember issue, you would do well to take the opportunity to source some original parts and put that linkage arrangement back to standard. I don’t know how keen you are to go any further but sorting out that hole someone has hacked out would be an idea, apart from a structural point of view, it will fill with water and cause more corrosion. The master cylinder is also different in looks to the standard item but presumably that works ok.

Totally agree - can't see the logic in what has been done, hate the idea of the box section being open. I think it maybe a case of cutting of this extra part and adding in an anchor for a new return spring. Brake pedal has a bit of play side to side so it will be worth looking at that area, new bushes?

Thought the cylinder looked right - how does it differ?

philthehill wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:13 am Thank you for posting the photos.
Why anyone would butcher the bottom of the chassis leg is beyond me. They have also cut away the floor above pipe unions at the rear of the master cylinder.
The brake pedal is bent out of alignment and appears to have been rubbing the floor cover. The master cylinder operating rod yoke seems to be attached to the side of the welded on piece of metal instead of the yoke fitting around the pedal lever.
The master cylinder does not look like a Morris Minor item, it could be a MG item which is similar but requires the mounting bosses to be narrowed. The bosses may have been narrowed which threw the master cylinder off center which then required the bracket to be welding on to return the master cylinder push rod to center place/alignment.
There was for a short time when Minor master cylinders were not available, a alternative master cylinder could have been utilized to get round the problem but there is no excuse for butchering the bottom of the chassis leg.
As Les has recommended replace the brake pedal linkage with the correct parts and do get that hole in the bottom of the chassis leg repaired.
Phil

Thanks for all the help I'm getting!
Does that mean brake pedal should not veer off to the right like that?
Apparently the master cylinder was 'renewed' 3 years ago - no idea what that means. Son's only had the car a few months - we are trying to sort it all out and above all make it safe. You should have seen the electrics!

Looks like we need to go on the search for original parts asap - though 'm not sure how easy that is going to be ...

I've had one idea about that weird linkage: could it be for towing? An A-frame with a rod linkage to the bit protruding through the chassis would operate the vehicle's brakes on the overrun; making it a braked trailer. Whatever, I think that some restoration would be a good idea.

Also, FYI, the car has has a remote servo added at some point - don't think that has any impact on that weird pedal arrangement but thought I'd mention it.

The pedal does have a lot of travel before the brakes work - maybe to do with it being non-standard. Not familiar with this car or all-drum brakes so wondered if this was normal - though didn't feel right.

The brake pedal should not veer off to the right, It should be straight ahead.
Standard brake pedal below as fitted to my Minor. I have fitted a grease nipple which does help to reduce wear and stop the pedal seizing on the pivot shaft. All the parts are readily available from ESM or other suppliers.

https://www.morrisminorspares.com/brake ... es-p829371

My experience of Minors is limited to my SII and I've always understood the pedal spacing is a little better on the latter cars, but could the 'cranked' brake pedal have been done because a previous owner had big feet that fouled the standard pedal spacing?

philthehill wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:55 am The brake pedal should not veer off to the right, It should be straight ahead.
Standard brake pedal below as fitted to my Minor. I have fitted a grease nipple which does help to reduce wear and stop the pedal seizing on the pivot shaft.
100_1891.JPG
All the parts are readily available from ESM or other suppliers.

https://www.morrisminorspares.com/brake ... es-p829371

Like the additional grease capability - nice touch. Shame ESM are out of stock - that seems like a decent price!

It seems that all the usual suppliers are out of stock
Not even one on 'e' bay.

philthehill wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:41 pm It seems that all the usual suppliers are out of stock
Not even one on 'e' bay.

Try club spares.

geoberni wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:57 pm My experience of Minors is limited to my SII and I've always understood the pedal spacing is a little better on the latter cars, but could the 'cranked' brake pedal have been done because a previous owner had big feet that fouled the standard pedal spacing?

Or did his big, heavy feet actually bend it during heavy breaking??

philthehill wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:41 pm It seems that all the usual suppliers are out of stock
Not even one on 'e' bay.

There are 9 specialists listed on the back couple of pages of Minor Matters alone (and that doesn't include some of the more well-known ones that spring to mind, like David Manners and Moss) - I'd be surprised if not one of them could help! I mention this as I think that sometimes some of the smaller specialists can be missed if they don't have a prominent website, for example.

liammonty wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 5:27 pm

philthehill wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:41 pm It seems that all the usual suppliers are out of stock
Not even one on 'e' bay.

There are 9 specialists listed on the back couple of pages of Minor Matters alone (and that doesn't include some of the more well-known ones that spring to mind, like David Manners and Moss) - I'd be surprised if not one of them could help! I mention this as I think that sometimes some of the smaller specialists can be missed if they don't have a prominent website, for example.

I don't have the list to hand - went to Uni with my son!

Really appreciating all the help guys - It's been a whole can or worms so far and I think there will be more.... I've realised that coming out of the back of the master is the usual two pipes... but the car has a servo, hopefully not just on the front cylinders ... I'm sure I'll find out shortly!

Still don't what the different is between this master and the usual ones - all look the same to a novice!