Timing Cover Leak

[svenedin]

The first thing you are going to have to do is remove the timing disc from the rear of the pulley. Just drill out the rivets . You can then tap the old rivet holes as they can then be used with a puller (as below) to remove the pulley if required. Using a 2 or 3 leg puller can damage the damped pulley.
Damper puller.JPG
As regards timing marks - I have just timed the engine and painted marks on the timing chain cover and pulley where I can see them. No need for special timing marks etc. You do not have to stick with the original timing marks/positions.

Thanks Phil. Yes. The Minispares one (which has been out of stock for some time) does not come with a timing disc. This one does and as you say, it is riveted on with 3x rivets. I will drill them out as you suggest. Nice idea to tap the holes. I have some UNF or UNC taps but I am not sure what size or TPI I would tap them to for a puller as I do not have a harmonic balancer puller like yours. I do have some 3 legged pullers which would do the job though I think.

Stephen

[philthehill]

Edit - I taped the rivet holes to 5/16" x 24 TPI UNF.
I personally would not use a legged puller on a harmonic damper as the pulley is and should be a firm sliding fit on the nose of the crankshaft.
The harmonic damper puller is a good investment and they are not expensive.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/176223282692 ... R66LzJ61Yw

[svenedin]

OK fair enough. I'll tap to 1/4" UNF and get a suitable puller.

Stephen

[philthehill]

Thought I had better check the threads in the harmonic damper and I stand corrected they are 5/16" x 24TPI.
You will need to use a 6.9mm drill to produce a hole suitable for taping to 5/16" UNF.
As such I have edited my post above.

[svenedin]

Roger. Many thanks. I've ordered a 6.9mm drill bit. I have the tap for 5/16 UNF 24 tpi already.

Stephen

[svenedin]

I drilled out the rivets and removed the timing ring. I have e-mailed Mini Sport to tell them that the item they sent as AHU1878 is not as pictured on their website which shows a pulley without a timing ring.

I don't have a drill press so all I could do was centre punch the rivet heads and then use my cordless drill with progressively larger drill bits. Whilst doing this I noticed there is a lot of run in and out of the chuck in my cordless drill and it is hard to drill perfectly square. Anyway, even after the rivets were drilled out the ring didn't want to come off. I thought there might be some spot welds as well so lightly drilled where the other non-riveted holes in the timing plate were and then gave the plate a thump with a hammer. It's off now. Not the most beautiful piece of work but done.

It's drilled to 6mm but I need to wait until I get a 6.9mm drill bit so I can tap a thread at 5/16 UNF so that a harmonic balancer puller can be used in future.

Stephen

IMG_9745.jpeg (1.36 MiB) Viewed 964 times

[svenedin]

After tightening lots of fasteners up yesterday I moved the car out into the sunshine and put a large stainless steel tray under the engine. I left the car running for a good 20 minutes whilst I did some tidying in the garage. Absolutely nothing in the tray. No oil, no water. The leak is fixed for now but I am still going to fit the damper pulley tomorrow or Saturday. Since the timing cover oil seal is only a year old I am tempted not to bother taking the timing cover off to fit a new seal and gasket. This is probably unwise and whilst I am there I should do it. I have the parts already.

Stephen

[myoldjalopy]

There are no leaks after you nipped up the timing cover and water pump bolts, hose clips etc. and the cover seal is only a year old? It is sometimes the case that bolts loosen a bit after being initially tightened up. Personally, if it is all good now I would leave it and see how it goes for a bit. There's no point fitting spare parts just because you have them. Up to you, of course......

[les]

Yes if all is well leave it. Tell yourself ——-‘it’s not a standard pulley’ . —— Oh go on then fit it !!

[svenedin]

Than you Gents. Agreed, I will not make more work for myself. I am going to fit the damped pulley though......

I harvested some parts from an old 1098 block I've had in the garage for decades. It is also a dry run of doing it on my engine. Starter dog was quite tight to get off but with a deep 1 5/16" socket and a long breaker bar it soon gave up and undid. I had been dousing it with PlusGas for 3 days. The pulley didn't want to come off so I used a screwdriver and a hammer to gently give it a tap from behind and it came right off with no fuss at all. I was rather surprised at how easy it was considering that block has been quietly rusting away on my garage floor for 35 years. I think what helped a lot was I had bent back the lockwasher tabs so that the PlusGas would penetrate properly. It really makes a huge difference. I had not realised that the old engine still had oil in it though. What a mess when I turned the block on its side.......Very runny black stinky engine oil.

The old timing chain cover oil seal was totally hardened. I tried to tap it out with the 1 5/16" socket for the starter dog which is the perfect size but it would not go. I had to dig around a bit with a screwdriver but I was very carefully not to damage the cover in the area of the oil seal. Eventually the seal popped out by digging in from behind with a screwdriver and lots of PlusGas.

It seems the timing mark on a standard pulley is almost exactly 180 degrees from the keyway. I will clean these parts up and paint them in case I need them on my car.

I have now paint stripped the parts and they are chemically de-rusting. The rust is very superficial so they can be painted tomorrow. Before I do that I need to knock some dents out of the old timing cover. I have some wooden dollies for that.

Stephen

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IMG_9748.jpeg (2.76 MiB) Viewed 913 times

[svenedin]

I'd recommend one of these stainless steel trays. They are available cheaper than the MSP. You can put them under the car to help find leaks or to prevent mess from known leaks or the tray is useful for keeping parts safe during a job. It's deep enough to give parts a light wash in it too. I used to use newspaper to catch drips but it tends to blow away when I open the garage.

https://www.lasertools.co.uk/Product/73 ... -Drip-Tray

Stephen

[svenedin]

Another flurry of activity refurbishing engine parts. It was actually warm enough to paint yesterday. I hang the parts from the washing line outside using fishing line and strong stainless steel clothespegs. Of course it rained overnight so the parts had to come back in to be wiped off and dried in the oven again. Once I have de-rusted parts it's a race to get them primed before they flash rust which happens near instantly.

I am going to live dangerously and go off piste and paint the crank pulley and starter dog yellow (shock horror). They will then match the fan and fan pulley not that you can really see the crank pulley anyway. I thought the bright yellow on the starter dog might actually be useful when trying to locate the starting handle in the dog.

@Philthehill I was looking at pictures of front engine plates. I saw one with a strengthening rib bolted on that said it was from a code 10CC engine. I am absolutely sure I have seen this strengthening rib before but why is it needed and what does it strengthen?

Stephen

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IMG_9754.jpeg (2.99 MiB) Viewed 867 times

[philthehill]

The strengthening plate was a standard fitment on the 1275cc Midget/Sprite engine.
It was I believe put there because the standard front engine plate could not cope with the extra weight of the 1275cc and tended to distort. I do not remember the strengthened plate being fitted to a 10CC prefixed engine.
In my own experience the standard front engine plate fitted to my 1380cc engine is adequate and has not distorted or bent even when the engine was 1400cc.
To fit the tensioner timing chain cover to a strengthened front engine plate I have trimmed back the strengthening plate to suit (see photo below).

Front engine plate 1.JPG (929.07 KiB) Viewed 844 times

You can also see the additional 11/16" dia hole to accommodate the head of the tensioner pivot pin.
The countersunk holes for the two front engine plate Allen/cross head screws can also be seen. As the screws are UNF the countersink should be 82 degrees but a 90 degree countersink will suffice.

[svenedin]

Thank you Phil. That answers everything!

Stephen

[svenedin]

Phil, sorry to pick your brains yet again......

If the later type timing chain cover is fitted:

A) How many extra holes need to be drilled in the front plate?
B) Does this interfere with the dynamo adjusting pedestal or anything else?

I will not be doing this anytime soon but I may try to source another front plate and a later timer cover (without breather). Then I could fit the timing cover to the plate on the bench and ascertain where the additional holes need to be. I would need to take it to somebody who has a drill press. If I did this I would also want to fit a tensioner. The 1098 front plates turn up cheaply (£10) but the later timing cover seems more scarce and the only one I can find at the moment is £30 and in a revolting condition (but doubtless would clean up fine). I know that the later cover needs the crank timing sensor bracket removed and the depression in the cover bent back out if used with a duplex chain. With a tensioner a simplex chain is said to be the quietest according to Vizard.

Stephen

[philthehill]

For the tensioner timing chain cover to be fitted an extra three holes need to be drilled. Use the tensioner timing chain cover gasket for their location/position.
The additional three holes do not interfere with the dynamo adjusting pedestal.
The only other hole required is the 11/16" dia hole for the head of the tensioner pivot pin. To determine its centre fit the tensioner without the pin and tensioner pad and then arc the tensioner mount bracket around the lower mount bolt fully in both directions. Mark the extremes and at the middle distance between the marks will be the centre of the 11/16" hole.
Alternatively obtain a classic Mini 'A' Plus front engine plate and use that as a guide for the hole centres. I use a classic Mini 'A' Plus front engine plate as a guide when drilling the holes.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/126105247793 ... R7SujYu3Yw
The quietist and most effective timing chain set up is to fit the duplex chain/sprockets and tensioner. That is the set up I use and very successfully too.

timing chain tensioner (1).jpg (1.18 MiB) Viewed 771 times

You can see the additional three holes for the 'A' Plus timing chain cover and the relationships between the dynamo tensioner pedestal and the timing chain cover etc..

[svenedin]

Thank you very much Phil. I see that very clearly now. The tensioner is actually using holes that were already there for the old tear drop shaped timing cover. Your phot is perfect because I can see the ghostly outline of where the old shaped timing cover gasket was.Great idea to use an A+ Mini front plate as a template. If bolts are used to clamp the 2 plates together before drilling there should be near perfect registration.

BTW is that the Minispares "super" water pump (GWP134EVO) I see there?



Stephen

[philthehill]

No it is not the Mini Spares EVO water pump.
The pump back then was a standard pump with the impellor removed and was just used as a relay for driving the alternator.
There was no need for the impellor as coolant was moved around by a Davis Craig electric water pump located next to the alloy cross flow radiator which is located under the boot floor.
Having the electric pump saved about 4bhp. The electric pump was controlled by a electric thermostat so did not run all the time.
That pump has now been replaced with a normal large impellor water pump and thermostat to ensure that coolant gets to the rear of the head as hot spots within the head were forming.

[svenedin]

Ah I see. I have a GWP134EVO in a box in the garage. It certainly seems a very well made pump and will do as a stop gap. My car ran with the original water pump until recently. I’ve kept the old pump of course with the intention of having it rebuilt as the replacement is not correct and cannot be disassembled for service.

Stephen

[svenedin]

I was looking in the engine bay just now.

Can anybody who has fitted a damper pulley to a standard 1098 AND has used the starter dog crankshaft bolt comment on whether the starter dog fouls the radiator? There is very little space between the starter dog and the radiator. The damped pulley is deeper than standard pulley which will put the starter dog further forward. I think there is clearance because the starter dog has room to pass under the radiator but I am not sure.

Stephen