1965 Four Door - sympathetic resto

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OGY985K
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Re: 1965 Four Door - sympathetic resto

Post by OGY985K »

Thanks John.
Mine is the same. Box says ‘rechargeable’ batteries but reality is normal lithium cells. I’ve ordered 2 for £6 vs new mask for £100!
Alan
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Re: 1965 Four Door - sympathetic resto

Post by OGY985K »

Hi All,

I'd appreciate your steer.

I COULD patch up the floors & cross members on the driver's side of the car...but they are a mess really. The floor tops have no resemblance to the
patched undersides...I suspect many layers. What I can't get my head around are the replacement panels.

Q 1. If I buy rear quarter floors then it's easy to cut out one section to gain access to replace the cross member end (one side is fine), then add the new floor panel. But do these quarter floor panels reach the cross member? Or, is there a gap between them that needs metal adding? https://www.morrisminorspares.com/body- ... e-p1238108

Q 2. Sill structure. I get the outer sill, inner box, boxing plate. But there appears to be a section at the edge of the floor that goes under the inner sill and meets the outer sill? I can't see this featured on the quarter floors? Am I missing something? I may be able to retain what's already there but haven't inspected yet

Thanks
Alan
ManyMinors
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Re: 1965 Four Door - sympathetic resto

Post by ManyMinors »

If you cut out the rear quarter floor and the end of the centre crossmember, you should be able to replace the rear quarter floor and then weld a new crossmember end onto it. There should be no gap between the front and the rear quarter floor panels.

Once you've cut all the old rusty sill sections away along with the floor pans I would suggest aligning and fitting the new outer floor edge panel into position first and - even if you attach it only with a few self tapping screws or similar initially. Then you can trial fit the new floor pans. What you do with the boxing panels will depend on how rusty they are. You may be fortunate enough to leave them or just repair the edges. Once you are happy with all this, the front and rear inner floor edge panels (as ESM call them) can be welded in to bridge the gap between the outer floor edge and the floor pans themselves. These, like the quarter floor pans themselves, can be trimmed down so you only use a smaller section of the repair panel if that is all you need. The repair panels are inexpensive so you can afford to buy a panel and only use part of it in some cases. There is no point in cutting out good sound original steel. Similarly, there is no point in retaining rusty original steel either so you have to make an individual judgement.

If you search through some of the restoration threads on here I'm sure you'll find some good photos and descriptions of similar repairs. Otherwise talk to panel suppliers who carry out such restorations and get some ideas from them?

Good luck with it! Take lots of photographs.
OGY985K
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Re: 1965 Four Door - sympathetic resto

Post by OGY985K »

Thanks @manyminors that’s very useful. It’s the floor edge panel that’s foxed me.
I can’t believe how much cheaper Morris panels are vs. Spitfire £228 / half floor for a Spit!
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Re: 1965 Four Door - sympathetic resto

Post by OGY985K »

New welding helmet in the end as replacing the batteries hasn’t fixed my old one. Have bought the basic Parweld kit as my last one was great. The new version has replaceable batteries https://www.weldingsuppliesdirect.co.uk ... elmet.html

Panels on order (RH) are rear pan, front and rear floor edge panels, outer sill, door pillar closing panel, cross member end. I just can’t bring myself to patching up the existing stuff…felt like a bodge. It would pass an MOT but I’d know the layers of mess exist.

Slow progress at the mo as pulled two chest muscles lifting my workmate bench off the wall.
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Re: 1965 Four Door - sympathetic resto

Post by OGY985K »

Hi All,
I’m back at it after a spell out with a rib problem.
As you can see, I’ve taken the rear quarter floor out as it was three layers of repairs thick, the sill is seriously lacking strength as it’s a mix of patches.
My plan is to replace the cross member end while the floor is out / I’ve got access, then outer sill (to keep aligned edge) before working inwards.
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mogbob
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Re: 1965 Four Door - sympathetic resto

Post by mogbob »

Hi Allan,
I'm a bit late to the post but have you stumbled across this useful diagram in your research from Moss Europe ?

https://www.moss-europe.co.uk/media/pdf/MMCAT2022.pdf
If you scroll down to Page 74 of the Catalogue you'll find a cross section of the whole Sill / floorpan area.
Bob
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Re: 1965 Four Door - sympathetic resto

Post by OGY985K »

Thanks Bob. Useful.

I’ve decided to go for full sill replacement on the driver’s side. There’s nothing safe to weld! The patches aren’t even attached properly. The step and boxing is on order…and a load more cutting discs!

Want it to be a solid car.

I’ve often heard the ‘buy for structure, not shine argument, but given my Spitfire cost £5k to paint, this Morris (which has good paint) is a far cheaper restoration as I can weld.
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Mulli
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Re: 1965 Four Door - sympathetic resto

Post by Mulli »

Watching with interest, I have a 4 door in a similar state of rot. Although I made the mistake of cutting too much out in one go and struggling to piece it all back together... :oops:

Good luck :tu1:
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Re: 1965 Four Door - sympathetic resto

Post by OGY985K »

I’ll try to get it back together @mulli.

More cutting. Does make me wonder what constitutes a safe repair. Layer upon layer of patches, many peeling away.

Hopefully get enough tidied to start replacing metal next week.
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OGY985K
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Re: 1965 Four Door - sympathetic resto

Post by OGY985K »

I’m now ready to weld in the outer sill and make repairs to the door pillar. The wing is temporarily replaced to ensure alignment is correct.
But now I’ve run out of welding gas…
Once the outer and inner sills are secure, pillar fixed, I’ll weld in a bar before replacing the sill boxing.
I’ll then replace the cross member end before addressing the floor.
I should explain what I mean by ‘sympathetic restoration’.
1. Not a strip back to nothing and rebuild (I got carried away on my Spitfire…it’s really a new car!)
2. Adapted for everyday us in modern traffic. The brakes are already upgraded, alternator fitted. I’m adding halogen headlights, headrest seats, inertia seatbelts.
It’s great to get to adding a new metal. The cutting out bit’s always messy.
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mogbob
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Re: 1965 Four Door - sympathetic resto

Post by mogbob »

" Welding Gas has run out " ... there's a trip down Memory lane. I soon graduated to big bottles for restoration.
You can easily forget about the gas , you're on a roll , good solid, strong welds and then... all of a sudden they're
rubbish.Did I knock the settings accidently, staring at the torch for inspiration when you turn towards the Gas
bottle and spot the gauge reading....OH stupid boy. Back to basics.
Mind you it will always run out at a weekend when you can't get another bottle for a few days and you only
wanted another 15 minutes welding to finish a section ! Experience is a great teacher.
Crack on , onwards and upwards , you'll get there. Good work so far.
Bob
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Re: 1965 Four Door - sympathetic resto

Post by OGY985K »

Thanks Bob.
Yes, you’re right. No more gas until the shop opens. I use the HobbyGas cylinders. Big enough for a decent amount of welding, easy enough to move about.
Funnily enough, the thing that most frustrates me is getting rusted bolts to turn. The rear wing is thoroughly stuck as someone has used a mix of hex bolts and normal bolts. I can live with it staying put and make localised repairs as it’s not in terrible shape and isn’t part of the structural restoration…plus I’m not going for a show car. A little patina is good.
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Re: 1965 Four Door - sympathetic resto

Post by OGY985K »

Decent progress this afternoon. Old step section and boxing out, new boxing in place, floor repair section made and in, outer sill welded into place. New step needs a bit of work before welding.
New seats are from a mini coupe. Perfect condition and £50 since the car owner has swapped in mini ‘lounge’ seats. I’ll have to sort the frames of course.
The rear floor extension panel’s going to take a bit of work as it’s not the best.
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OGY985K
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Re: 1965 Four Door - sympathetic resto

Post by OGY985K »

Day off today. Lots of work on the A post, sill step, reinstating the captive nuts for the front wing (it was welded on where it had rusted away.
Obviously not finished or tidied up. It’s a lot of work fixing the front corner properly!
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Re: 1965 Four Door - sympathetic resto

Post by OGY985K »

What is has made me realise is how weak the car was. All the flex that was in the front end is gone.
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Re: 1965 Four Door - sympathetic resto

Post by OGY985K »

Hi All,
Please can someone remind me which way this adjuster plate goes. Lip up or down?
Almost ready to weld in the cross member end. It’s taken a bit of fiddling with the inner sill to get it to fit. The new panel doesn’t allow the cross member end to sit flat. Anyway, a bit of adjustment and it’s looking good.
Thanks
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philthehill
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Re: 1965 Four Door - sympathetic resto

Post by philthehill »

Personally I would get rid of that rusty adjustment plate and fit a new one.
Lip up.
The small flange of the adjustment plate sits underneath the top flange of the cross member and faces outwards.
The loading on the cross member is focused upwards through the flange of the adjustment plate.

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Re: 1965 Four Door - sympathetic resto

Post by OGY985K »

Thanks Phil.
I will clean up the plate. I’m trying to repair stuff rather than replace on this car (he says having ripped out the full sill etc). Got carried away on my Spit with full new panels (easy to work with though).
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Re: 1965 Four Door - sympathetic resto

Post by OGY985K »

Hi All,
I’ve cut out all the rot on the front wing and welded in new metal. Quite a tricky task, as I’m sure many of you know. But I’ve now run into a problem. The Dove Grey paint I’ve bought from ESM is lighter than the car. You can see the difference in the pic where I’ve lined up new paint on an off cut against paint on part of the wing that’s been cut out.
Is there a place that matches colours if I send a sample that I’ve taken from the car? That can mix me a few aerosols?
I’ll make use of the ESM cans in the boot and/or engine bay.
Thanks
Alan
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