Front Brakes

[Stanmo]

Last weekend when driving I hear an intermittent squeaking coming from drivers front wheel. When checked the wheel and hub were very hot. Once cooled I removed both front wheels and checked shoes which still have 60% of lining left. I pressed the brake pedal and noticed that the cylinders on drivers side didn’t move but passenger side did although passenger side seemed to leak fluid yet on removal initially the shoes were dry and free from any moisture. I have had advice some conflicting in regard to bearings, shoes etc. I have purchased new shoes even though I don’t think this is the problem as well as four new cylinders, springs and flexi hoses.
I’m now pausing for thought and wondered whether anyone can advise.
I’m a competent enthusiast but before I start dismantling bearings etc should I check other areas? Also could any one explain the bleeding of brakes? I understand the pedal and pipe etc but do I pump all existing fluid out and then top up? Do I leave the cap off the master when bleeding and what is the plastic bag over the cap method I’ve read about? Thank you all in advance.

[myoldjalopy]

Without examination, I would suggest that the wheel and hub being hot are a sign of binding brakes, caused by the cylinders being seized, as you have noted.Did the cylinder on the passenger side leak fluid only after removing the shoes and can you see where it is leaking from? One of the pistons will slide out once the shoes are removed unless you secure it with wire or some kind of wedge, causing leakage. I would not be messing with the bearings if it is just a case of seized cylinders.
There are different ways of bleeding the brakes but I will leave it to others to describe their favourite methods.

[Stanmo]

Thanks for reply “my old jalopy” The leakage from passenger side did only start after pressing brake and came from cylinder, I assumed they would be fixed in place, so sounds as though it has come out !! The hub itself in both sides spins freely although drivers side not as much and they sound smooth.

[myoldjalopy]

OK, so if you pressed the brake pedal after removing the shoes there will likely be leakage and the piston can even pop right out..
It may be possible to clean up the cylinders but as you have already got some new ones, you might as well fit them. Give them a nice dollop of red rubber grease where the piston moves before fitting.
Might be worth removing the little hub cap over the bearing to see if the grease in there has gone hard or filthy dirty. They just prize out with a screwdriver - you will see where to lever them out.
I'm sure someone else will be along with their top brake bleeding tips but you can search this forum, it has doubtless been discussed many times before. Or Google it.

[mogbob]

Stanmo
The plastic bag over the brake master cylinder " over " the cap trick has been wrongly described. If you place a decent thickness plastic bag
( not one of the flimsy disposable ones ) over the filler neck of the brake master cylinder and ..then screw back the cap " over " the plastic bag
this will stop air entering the system. If you are working on the braking system then loss of brake fluid , either through the bleed nipple or by slackening off a pipe line connection is prevented / much reduced. By the time the system is repaired some minor leakage of brake fluid and intake of air will have happened. So it is highly recommend / essential that the system is topped up with brake fluid and a normal brake bleeding exercise is carried out.

Brake fluid is a very effective paint stripper. Think of the plastic bag trick as being a damage limitation exercise ,it is not intended that you should
not bleed the brakes after any work is carried out. Don't gamble on the braking system working for your own sake and other innocent people.

The reservoir cap would normally be left off during brake bleeding.Store it temporarily , covered , so that no dirt can be blown over it. I always
surround the reservoir itself with disposable paper towel so that brake fluid drips don't damage the paintwork when filling.

Bob

[geoberni]

myoldjaloppy has pretty much covered the matter of the brake components, but to answer your questions about bleeding....

I understand the pedal and pipe etc but do I pump all existing fluid out and then top up?

Noooooo! The idea of bleeding is to get rid of any air in the system, the last thing to do is purposely let more in.
Bleeding can be a right pain without doing that. Just top it up regularly after every couple of pedal presses.

Putting a plastic bag over the top

That's what you do when you don't want fluid to run out under gravity when changing items like the wheel cylinders. It just creates a little vacuum to hold the fluid in the reservoir. Useful on modern cars with a high up reservoir, but not really necessary with the Minor when the Reservoir is at floor level (unless it's been modified to have an extra reservoir).

Do I leave the cap off the master when bleeding

No, place it loosely on the top because the design of the MC results in a little squirt of fluid in the Reservoir when operating the pedal.
You'll only do it the once before you realise you get fluid all over the floor/carpet ...

As already said, use the Search Facility to find old discussions about Brake bleeding and you'll get an idea about the issues concerned.

[Stanmo]

Thank you to everyone, as always straight to the point information,

[mowogg]

Its unlikely there will be anything wrong with the brake springs. AS above it sounds like the cylinders have seized.

You will also need new copper washers when you replace the flexi hoses. Perhaps you have ordered these too. If you have not get them you can anneal. them if you need to reuse them.

[Stanmo]

Update. Changed the wheel cylinders along with the flexi hoses and also new shoes as fluid had leaked onto one. Annealed the copper washers as didn’t have any but the old ones were still pretty good. Bled the brakes as per instructions from previous posts, took a few attempts with my young lad on the peddle, readjusted the shoes and all seems good. Emergency stops appear on form. Thank you to everyone for their guidance.

[mowogg]

Well done -i am sure it will be fine given your description. The copper washers will be fine -i have done this many times myself

[Nickol]

A successful conclusion - but it is similar to a problem I have so I have resurrected the thread, so to speak. ( it saves creating a new one!) .

In braking the car pulls to one side, namely to the right. So I have removed the left hand front brake drum, cleaned it all up and got my lovely assistent to gently operate the brake pedal whilst I observed the movement of the brake cylinders. Only one moved, i.e that towards the rear of the car where the bleed nipple is. I then tried to jam this cylinder so as to give the forward one more of a chance. Again there was no movement on the forward one.

I have ordered spare cylinders anyway as it seems this is the culprit. ( they are Lockheed ones maybe 7 or 8 years old) but I did want to ask those in the know here if it is perhaps normal that only one cylinder can be seen to operate, when there is no load on the brakes? If it is normal, then I may need to look elsewhere for the solution