Latest Convertible?

[Brownowl]

Hi,

I'm looking to buy a 1969 factory convertible. It was registered on 6 June 1969, and 4 days later, the last convertible rolled off the line. I know that it would have sat in a dealership for a while, but only 170 toureres were produced in '69, so it must be close to the last one made.

So my question is, is there any source to show when this car was actually made, and how close to the last one made it is?

The chassis number is about 1400 from that of the last one, but I know that means little.

Cheers, Laurie.

[geoberni]

Get a Heritage Certificate from the BMM at Gaydon: https://www.britishmotormuseum.co.uk/ar ... rtificates

I know they don't have complete records as some were lost in a fire decades ago, if I recall correctly, but you can give them a call first.

[Brownowl]

Thanks, but I don't think that will tell me where in the list of '69 Tourers this car is in terms of date of manufacture.

What I really want is a list of chassis numbers for the last 170 Tourers only. Such a list seems unavailable online, unsurprisingly!

Maybe the club has a register of Tourers with chassis numbers known to it, but I don't know who to ask or even if they'd release it.

Cheers, Laurie.

[simmitc]

You can visit Gaydon, get a ticket for the reading room, and consult the original ledgers. Find the recoird for your car and then page forwards noting all the Tourers.

If you do decide to go, and enjoy that sort of thing (it can be both interesting and rewarding) then there are a couple of us who have some other research that needs doing, and that you could do at the same time.

You can also ask Gaydon to do some research for you. The first x hours (can't remember whether it's 1,2 or 3) are free and then there's a very reasonable charge per hour.

You could also ask the MMOC office for a list of all MAT* chassis numbers that they have on the membership system, but that will be nowhere near as complete as the records at Gaydon.

[svenedin]

Mine is 1969 and the heritage certificate says it was made on 28th March. The body number might be more useful. I assume the body number refers only to convertibles. Maybe I’m wrong

[Brownowl]

You can visit Gaydon, get a ticket for the reading room, and consult the original ledgers. Find the recoird for your car and then page forwards noting all the Tourers.

If you do decide to go, and enjoy that sort of thing (it can be both interesting and rewarding) then there are a couple of us who have some other research that needs doing, and that you could do at the same time.

You can also ask Gaydon to do some research for you. The first x hours (can't remember whether it's 1,2 or 3) are free and then there's a very reasonable charge per hour.

You could also ask the MMOC office for a list of all MAT* chassis numbers that they have on the membership system, but that will be nowhere near as complete as the records at Gaydon.

Thanks, all good ideas. Sadly, I live in deepest East Anglia and don't often get up Gaydon way, but I'll see if I can sort a trip out.

Cheers, Laurie.

[Brownowl]

Mine is 1969 and the heritage certificate says it was made on 28th March. The body number might be more useful. I assume the body number refers only to convertibles. Maybe I’m wrong

Yes, the last 7 digits of the chassis number will be the number it was assigned on build. If I buy the car, and I probably will, I'll get a heritage cert. It was first registered on 6 June, and judging by the chassis number didn't seem to have hung around in a showroom for long. It's within 1400 of the last one made.

The first characters, as per a factory convertible, are M/AT 5 (for a 1098) and D for deluxe.

Cheers, Laurie.

[svenedin]

I don’t mean the chassis number I mean the body number. They’re not the same.

It’s on the left hand side of the bulkhead secured by 2 screws and much less obvious than the chassis number plate which is on the other side. Annoyingly the image has been rotated on posting

ABDA9529-096B-4BE4-9A6E-B26939B8E569.jpeg (3.07 MiB) Viewed 39019 times

[Brownowl]

I don’t mean the chassis number I mean the body number. They’re not the same.

Ok, never heard of that. Where would I find the body number?

Cheers, Laurie.

[svenedin]

See above.

[Brownowl]

Ok, thanks. Every day is a school day!

And where would its relevance and meaning be documented, please?

Cheers, Laurie.

[svenedin]

Ok, thanks. Every day is a school day!

And where would its relevance and meaning be documented, please?

Cheers, Laurie.

That I do not really know but I believe all of the last run of tourers were made in one factory. I am assuming that body number sequence is unique to tourers because that body type is not used by any other model. Therefore if you can find out the last one you might be able to have a good idea how far your car is from last. Just an idea. My car strangely seems to have a different body number to the number on my heritage certificate but perhaps I am just reading the numbers on my car incorrectly.

[Brownowl]

Ah, ok. If I buy it, I'll see what it is.

Cheers, Laurie.

[simmitc]

Both the chassis number on the car and the body number on the car should be the same as shown on the Heritage Certificate. If there is a discrepancy then I would look at other features of the car to check that the chassis plate had not been fitted to a different body. Check that the car number (last part of chassis number) matches that stamped into the shell - location varies depending on year. If thise are both OK, then it could be a clerical error, otherwise doubts are raised.

[svenedin]

Thanks. What are the possible locations of the car number being stamped on the car? My car is away at the moment. The body number plate is actually very difficult to read. Dirty, bit rusty and the paint partially obscures the numbers.

[Brownowl]

You can also ask Gaydon to do some research for you. The first x hours (can't remember whether it's 1,2 or 3) are free and then there's a very reasonable charge per hour.

That facility seems to have gone. What they offer now is a "Web Research Request", which comprises a "simple question about your vehicle; for example, date of manufacture or original colour." and costs £6. See: https://www.britishmotormuseum.co.uk/ar ... n-services

I can't find anything on the site which suggests anything else is possible outside of a personal visit.

Cheers, Laurie.

[svenedin]

Both the chassis number on the car and the body number on the car should be the same as shown on the Heritage Certificate. If there is a discrepancy then I would look at other features of the car to check that the chassis plate had not been fitted to a different body. Check that the car number (last part of chassis number) matches that stamped into the shell - location varies depending on year. If thise are both OK, then it could be a clerical error, otherwise doubts are raised.

I just spoke to Steve at ESM for an update on my car. Mentioned the number on the plate on L/H side of bulkhead (not the chassis number plate on R/H side) does not match the body number on the heritage certificate. Steve said he's never managed to work out what the numbers on the plate mean and "they never match anything". So the conclusion is, that's not the body number on that plate.

[POMMReg]

Think Z32743 convertible bodycode ran from c8/68 to c3/69....when it was replaced by the Z34822/Z36056 code, info from "old" book.

2nd number prefixed by rear punched "T", number will be 7xxxx - poss late 71xxx or early 72xxx(?) - not sure of last, surprised if Convertibles broke 73xxx.

Uneducated guess

[svenedin]

That’s brilliant info. Thank you! So the first number is a body code. Second number starting T is the car’s unique body number. According to heritage certificate mine is 72055 but on car it is 7205. In other words the heritage certificate has an extra digit.

So Brownowl, this does work. Find out your June 1969 car’s body number and compare it to my March 1969 car’s number. If you know 170 tourers were made in 1969 this will give you some idea of how close to the last one your car is. Of course the number of the last car is what you really need.

[Brownowl]

Thanks. I suppose it all hinges on the numbers being sequential, as well as the number on the last car - which we don't know...

Cheers, Laurie.