Disc brakes

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davidm1164
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Disc brakes

Post by davidm1164 »

Hi
I am new to the club, got my wife a 1969 convertible minor
( conversion) and she thought the brakes were broke! Bless her, I had forgotten just how bad drums all round were, looking at the mr grumpy kit, apart from just the kit, is there anything else I would have to do, as regards remote tank etc, I know I have to remove the relief valve from the master cylinder, but is that basically it, any help would be much appreciated, I am situated on anglesey north wales
Thanks in advance
Dave
myoldjalopy
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Re: Disc brakes

Post by myoldjalopy »

Likely the braking system has been neglected. If it is a standard Minor, drum brakes are absolutely fine if in good fettle. Any number of things may be wrong - worn shoes, sticking cylinders, fluid leaks etc. Probably needs an overhaul of the braking system to rectify.
simmitc
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Re: Disc brakes

Post by simmitc »

Welcome to the forum, good choice of car. If you use the search facility, there are loads of posts about fitting disc brakes, and also the effects of fitting different types of brake shoes. Properly adjusted and maintained drum setups will easily lock all four wheels, so discs can't do better than that. Is it perhaps that your good lady is not used to the effort required to push the pedal without a servo, and might a servo on drums be just as good for her as discs? You could try the servo on its own, see how that goes, and then still fit discs if you still need to. I use standard drums on a saloon and discs on the two Travellers, so I am open minded on the subject.
Myrtles Man
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Re: Disc brakes

Post by Myrtles Man »

You could do worse than check out if these are still available:- viewtopic.php?t=74865. Having recently done the conversion myself I can confirm that the improvement really is worthwhile.
davidm1164
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Re: Disc brakes

Post by davidm1164 »

Thanks for all the reply’s, certainly gives me food for thought, as soon as I get back off holiday I will check all the shoes, cylinders etc, it may be they are just not set up right, only pootling around the island, maybe a few shows, so not doing any time trials 😂, just want to be safe
Thanks again
Dave
oliver90owner
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Re: Disc brakes

Post by oliver90owner »

David,

My personal view, after over 5 decades decades of motoring leans heavily towards discs - certainly on the front.

My first car was an 1100, then a Cortina, followed by an Anglia, another Cortina and then a Mk1 Escort. All secondhand, of course.

Discs, back then were considered more expensive but had advantages over drums - no regular adjustment necessary and they soon dried out out after immersion!

The 1500GT Anglia already had a servo disc conversion (from a Capri) and literally almost stood on its nose when braked heavily (it had the soft Capri coil springs fitted).

The first Cortina was non-servo disc braked - pretty reasonable except they faded with heavy use (we drove our cars hard and the 1500GT engines easily out-performed the brakes). Fitting a servo, with harder grade pads, was the antidote to that problem.

My second Cortina had drums and was forever needing adjustment - the rears were terrible, too. One was soon driving around with the hand brake slightly applied (to maintain minimum pedal movement) if they were not adjusted. I cannot recall if we fitted discs to that one, but likely did.

The Escort came along eventually - ex panda car with drums. That was B awful. When the engine was upgraded to 1500GT+, the rest of the car had been, or was, upgraded to make it a very good road car🙂. IIRC, the rear drums may have been self-adjusting shoes, but maybe not. Self-adjusting shoes were a real god-send back then and still are, now.

That brings us to fronts being disc braked on all my cars, ever since, as standard - and always servo assisted, with discs fitted to rears on most performance cars since the 1990s(?).

I would only use drums at the front if there was no other immediate alternative. Large drums can be good, but those that were built to a price were only adequate, IMO.

FIT DISCS IF YOU HAVE THE OPTION. They are superior to drums. Think - how many cars are fitted with drums at the front these days. Drums are adequate, but that is all, is my view for 21st century motoring. Even my early 1970s motorcycle has a disc at the front. It’s not difficult to admit that discs are better, but there will always be some that either disagree (for their own personal reasons) - or know no better.

Also, I’ve had few problems with disc calipers over the decades. Not zero, but better than changing slave cylinders, made in china, on a fairly regular basis.

Dual circuit brakes are yet another issue. I’ve suffered brake failure more than twice over those decades (I’ve only ever purchased one new car). I don’t like that. The last was a sudden unexpected master cylinder failure only a few years ago on a modern dual circuit car. My fault because I normally check the pedal travel before starting off (one has to do that with modern automatics, these days?).
jagnut66
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Re: Disc brakes

Post by jagnut66 »

I broadly agree with the above but don't feel the need to add a servo myself.
I have always had, or installed, vented discs (ford conversion type) on the front of my Minors. When I first bought Abby, my old two door, she had discs fitted without a servo and stopped on a sixpence, without too much pedal pressure.
Whilst doing other Mods to her I added a servo, however all that did was make the pedal slightly softer. I didn't feel it was any better than the previous 'servo-less' set up, just an added expense.
Plus the servos can fail themselves.......
So to my mind they are just something else to go wrong.
I have never felt inclined to add a servo since.
Best wishes,
Mike.
1954 Series 2: 4 door: "Sally" -- Back on the ground with (slave) wheels and waiting to be resprayed......
1970 Triumph Herald 1200: "Hetty" -- Driven back from Llangollen in Wales (twice.....)
kevin s
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Re: Disc brakes

Post by kevin s »

Much the same here, I had a series Landrover for years the drums were a pain in the backside, constantly needed adjusting, the cylinders leak and if you get water in them it takes ages to get decent brakes back again. When we got the minor I made my own disc set up using Corsa parts which seems to work very well and used a modified Beetle dual circuit master cylinder. I drove it first without a servo and the braking was fine the only problem was the rears locked up before the front so I added a servo on the front circuit only, now the brakes lock up on the front first and the feel is progressive and about the same effort as our mk1 MX5. did need to use a pressure bleeder to get a good pedal though.

One thing that makes a huge difference if you don't have the servo is the pad material, I deleted the servo on my Elan because it kept leaking and leaving me with no brakes, initially the brakes felt awful with no initial bite, fitting green stuff pads transformed it.
jagnut66
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Re: Disc brakes

Post by jagnut66 »

When we got the minor I made my own disc set up using Corsa parts which seems to work very well and used a modified Beetle dual circuit master cylinder. I drove it first without a servo and the braking was fine the only problem was the rears locked up before the front
Interesting, in comparison I have always stuck with a standard Minor master cylinder, a ford vented disc conversion on the front and standard rear drums.
I usually fit Cunifer (Kunifer?**) brake pipes and new flexi hoses, rear wheel cylinders and shoes (plus new handbrake cables).
I have never had this issue (touching wood :wink: ).
As an aside, I initially ran with Dot 4 brake fluid but have now swapped to Dot 5 (Silicon), it's harder to bleed through but is better for the braking components and doesn't absorb water, though it won't tolerate any air in the system, so new bleed nipples, connectors and brass banjos are also a must.
I also like to keep the original rear drums, if they are still serviceable, as they seem of better quality than the new ones that you can buy, which I have found can go 'oval' quite quickly.
Best wishes,
Mike.

** I can never work out whether it's meant to be spelt with a 'C' or a 'K'??
Both spellings seem to be in use......
1954 Series 2: 4 door: "Sally" -- Back on the ground with (slave) wheels and waiting to be resprayed......
1970 Triumph Herald 1200: "Hetty" -- Driven back from Llangollen in Wales (twice.....)
don58van
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Re: Disc brakes

Post by don58van »

I can never work out whether it's meant to be spelt with a 'C' or a 'K'??
Cunifer makes more sense to me -- Cu for copper, ni for nickel and fer for ferrous.

Without searching the web for answers, I don't know where the Ku comes from.

Don
Myrtles Man
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Re: Disc brakes

Post by Myrtles Man »

From the Klux Klan? :o
philthehill
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Re: Disc brakes

Post by philthehill »

Kunifer is one of the trade names for Cunifer which is the material used to make brake pipes and many other items..

jagnut66
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Re: Disc brakes

Post by jagnut66 »

From the Klux Klan? :o
A very lucrative sideline for them then, I would imagine. It should keep those harmless honest Christian fellows in large wooden crosses for years to come................... :wink:
Kunifer is one of the trade names for Cunifer which is the material used to make brake pipes and many other items..
Thanks Phil, I shall stick with a 'C' then.
For both the above reasons...... :wink:
Best wishes,
Mike.
1954 Series 2: 4 door: "Sally" -- Back on the ground with (slave) wheels and waiting to be resprayed......
1970 Triumph Herald 1200: "Hetty" -- Driven back from Llangollen in Wales (twice.....)
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