Rain Issue

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stephen forsey
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Rain Issue

Post by stephen forsey »

Good afternoon,

I am new to the forum and have never posted on this, or any other, forum before so I apologise in advance if I have gone about anything the wrong way.

I have owned a 1959 Traveller for nearly 2 years and use it every day for work. It is fitted with a Marina 1300 engine and a 5 speed gearbox. It's doing approximately 7,000 mile per year and is a pleasure to use.

However, over the last 8 months it has started to misfire intermittently when on the motorway in heavy rain. I suspect this is a spray issue. It gets worse and worse as I battle on, until eventually it dies altogether. I then stop on the hard shoulder and 'tinker' for a few minutes, after which it starts again and off I go. I originally pointed the finger of blame at the distributor and so had electronic ignition fitted and a new coil, as well as new spark plugs, but it has made no difference. The HT leads also look fine.

Due to the obvious dangers of the car stopping altogether on the motorway in the rain, I have made getting this sorted my highest priority (although I never miss a chance to 'improve' anything about the car).

Any thoughts and advice would be greatly received.

Stephen
nutmegct
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Re: Rain Issue

Post by nutmegct »

Hi Stephen - welcome to the Forum.

I'm not familiar with that engine. Could you post a photo of the engine area? As the problem occurs only at high speed (motorway) on rainy days, I'm wondering if water spray is hitting (and grounding?) the coil.

Tom M.
stephen forsey
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Re: Rain Issue

Post by stephen forsey »

Thanks Tom,

I will get a photo this evening and post it (with some help from one of my teenage children I suspect).

The engine is an A series and, I believe, the same as the Morris 1098cc model, just bored out to 1275cc, but I must confess to not being much of an expert.

I wonder if I can cover the coil in plastic bag as that will eliminate that potential cause? I don't know whether that will effect the efficiency of the coil though.

Stephen
panky
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Re: Rain Issue

Post by panky »

An old trick on Minis was to use a rubber glove on the distributer to keep water out by poking the leads through the fingers and tying the wrist around the dizzy.
A water displacement spray is probably the way to go though, something like this although I've no experience of how effective it is

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/154863733384 ... SwnQRiFNOj
Last edited by panky on Tue Mar 01, 2022 2:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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stephen forsey
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Re: Rain Issue

Post by stephen forsey »

Excellent idea, although I was hoping the electronic ignition would have eliminated water ingress in to the dizzy as a problem. Having said that, for the cost of a clip round the ear for nicking one of the good lady's marigolds, it's got to be worth a go.
Myrtles Man
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Re: Rain Issue

Post by Myrtles Man »

Another trick you can try is to start the engine at night, preferably a dark, damp night (plenty of opportunity there) and have a look under the bonnet and see if any electrickery is escaping (shorting across the coil, distributor cap, plug leads etc). Could prove a useful bit of analysis for you.
kevin s
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Re: Rain Issue

Post by kevin s »

I think it's more likely to be icing in the carb, as the air flows through the venturi the pressure drops, this also means temperature drops , as fuel vaporises in the carb it also draws heat from the airflow and the net result is moisture in the air freezes and forms ice crystals which slowly throttle the engine, stop for a few minutes it melts and all seems well again.

The standard car picks up intake air off the exhaust manifold to prevent this, what air cleaner do you have?
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mobylette
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Re: Rain Issue

Post by mobylette »

Water getting into/onto the distributor cap tends to short out the HT to the plugs, fitting electronic ignition will make no difference. Try the old trick of observing the HT leads/cap in the dark for any blue sparks! this can show up HT problems.
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stephen forsey
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Re: Rain Issue

Post by stephen forsey »

Thanks everyone for your advice.

As it does it even on warm but wet days, I suspect it is mostly likely the shorting issues which has been identified rather than ice crystals.

I will have a look at the distributor in the dark as suggested and may even, sparingly, use the garden hose to see if I can get the fault to occur as this will help with spotting any shorting. I don't think there is any harm is using the marigold idea anyway on a 'belt and braces' basis.

I will let you know how I get on.

Stephen
Grumpy21
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Re: Rain Issue

Post by Grumpy21 »

I wouldn't use a garden hose, if you want to simulate road spray try a house hold cleaner mister - kitchen/bathroom cleaner etc. Just was it out thoroughly first and use plain water for your test.
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geoberni
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Re: Rain Issue

Post by geoberni »

It'd be good to see some engine bay photos in case the Coil is mounted somewhere strange for example.

But I agree with Grumpy21, a fine mist is required, not a drenching.
Basil the 1955 series II

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myoldjalopy
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Re: Rain Issue

Post by myoldjalopy »

I had a similar issue many years ago, except it was thick fog that caused the problem. Solved by fitting new plug leads and dizzy cap, despite that the old ones looked OK.
stephen forsey
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Re: Rain Issue

Post by stephen forsey »

Thanks for the tip. I have replaced the cap but not the leads so that will be my next port of call.

I have tried to recreate the problem using a 'misting' of water and a hose, but to no avail.

Having looked at other engine bays on line, my coil is in a different position due to having a different engine. It is located on the inner wing and stood upright. I have therefore fashioned a cap for it in order to stop the spray from causing a short when the cap of the coil is wet. This seems to have reduced, but not eradicated, the problem. I am wondering if any of the wires to the coil are 'bare' and therefore shorting, but I can't see any breaks in the plastic coating.
liammonty
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Re: Rain Issue

Post by liammonty »

I'd say that it's too warm at the moment for carb icing - in my experience, that occurs in the colder, damp weather (though I haven't experienced it for years and years).

HT leads would have been my first port of call - I suspect that if you change them, you will solve the problem. Electronic ignition would be unlikely to solve the issue, I would have thought, as it won't prevent moisture from getting inside the distributor cap if it is, and you are of course still relying on the rotor arm and distributor cap contacts. I see you've changed the cap already as that is the other thing that I would have suspected.

Of the 8 or so Minors I've owned, I've never had any issues with bad running in the damp, so you should be able to solve this without the need for modifications. The most troublesome cars are the FWD A-Series ones, like the Mini and the 1100/1300, as the electrics are all on the front of the engine and are constantly getting soaked in the rain. With the Minor, if the ignition system is all good, it should be fine.
stephen forsey
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Re: Rain Issue

Post by stephen forsey »

Thanks Liammonty,

HT lead next then I think.

I will post an update (once we've had some heavy rain).

Stephen
philthehill
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Re: Rain Issue

Post by philthehill »

I would fit the following:-
http://www.minispares.com/product/Class ... o%20search

http://www.minispares.com/product/Class ... o%20search

Both items developed by BMC/BL to overcome the problem of water spray on the coil and distributer.

Classiccars
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Re: Rain Issue

Post by Classiccars »

Great find from Phithehill nice you can get these handy items.Could have done with them years ago
stephen forsey
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Re: Rain Issue

Post by stephen forsey »

Thanks Phil.

They look perfect. I have got them winging their way to me.

Stephen
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