Sagged in the middle

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cadetchris
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Sagged in the middle

Post by cadetchris »

So my minor has sagged a bit in the middle and I’ve only realised when I’ve come to hang the doors.
When I cut the roof off and long before I replaced the sills, floor etc, I braced the entire car to prevent this, but it’s happened anyway.
The doors are not original ones as they were very rotten, so I’ve got a new pair but they won’t fit the gap.

I’ve replaced the floors, sills (inner and outer) and fitted strengthening panels on the a and b pillars, as well as the sill doublers. So all in all I’ve added about a mile and a half of extra welding wire to the car and it’s considerably stronger than it was.

So what can I do about these non fitting doors?

I am tempted to alter the doors themselves as that would be considerably easier and quicker than cutting out all the metal I’ve put into the car and then faffing with measurements, jacks and bracing.

Has anyone had this situation before and how did you resolve it?
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geoberni
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Re: Sagged in the middle

Post by geoberni »

Sounds to me as though you've now got a potentially unroadworthy handling nightmare on your hands....
Basil the 1955 series II

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kennatt
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Re: Sagged in the middle

Post by kennatt »

depends how much it has sagged,and if it is structurally solid ie will it sag further in use. You could check by supporting in the centre to see if there is any straightening ,if not ,then I suppose you could be satisfied that it is solidly welded into the new shape. I once acquired an mgb roadster that had been subjected to the same . Did the same test ,and after a couple of months there was no further movement. I checked the alignment corner to corner front to back each side and decided that it was within acceptable tolerance so then altered the doors to fit the gaps. It handled no differently to the one I already had . The best you can now do,because it would be just about impossible to do otherwise,is the above tests and alter the doors. I can't see it effecting the handling to any great extent.. I bet a lot of the early hand assembled cars were far from perfect off the production line. A friend of mine once bought a very rough Aston and when he came to fitting factory supplied body panels was told by Aston that they would all need edge rolling and panel beating to fit the gaps .When they came ,they were all oversized and needed extensive fettling.to fit. One thing I will say is that if you do the above if you ever sell the car on,is to explain what has been done to be fair to the new owner . Good luck with it.
mogbob
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Re: Sagged in the middle

Post by mogbob »

The complexity of trimming " just " the vertical edges of the doors ( ? ) is dependent on the amount you have to reduce each door by. Note , measure each side carefully , they may differ each side. Measure at numerous points / levels going down the doorframe. You're hoping it will be parallel but will it be wedged shape ?

You can't alter the top window frame easily, so measurement is crucial. Do you have any wriggle room ?
Whilst you cannot get the door in , at the moment , when you do offer up the hinge side of the door ,does the
shape at least look close to being OK. Whilst you can pack out the hinges ( don't lose the retaining bolts down in the A post frame , allowing the loose fixing plate to fall as well , if the ledge has rusted away ! ) it will only shift the problem to the trailing edge of the door.

Tackle the hinge side vertical edge first , the worst side. Then move to the trailing door edge.

Masking tape along the edge to be cut. As you know , no doubt , the outside door panel wraps around the internal main frame. It is then spot weld on the return edge.
When you grab the angle grinder , remember you don't have to remove very much metal before the outside
panel starts to part company with the frame.
I would experiment on a small section first , an inch / 25mm at most. Cutting back to your finished width
does it break through ? If you then have to weld the edge , you will need to cut the outside panel a little further
back to start with , to accommodate the weld width. If the "tuck around " of the metal is wafer thin , hanging on by a wing and a prayer ( after the grinding down ) .....don't trust to luck.
The first decent slam of the door and the metalwork might part company.
I'd work down the edge in sections , grinding down , then the welding before moving on. The usual game of welding , jump about , small sections at a time , NOT next to each other , to reduce the chance of heat distortion. Dress back the welds carefully once you're finished. ( Cover paintwork and glass )
What ever you do don't rush it. Take ... your .. time. It's not going anywhere and you want to get it right first time.
As an aside another classic car , I had a rotted out base of a ' B ' post , where 7 separate panels conjoined.
I made 7 cardboard cut outs of the repair patches and spent 3 whole days checking that a.) they would fit together and more importantly b.) in what order I should weld them back into the car , so that I always had solid clean metal to weld to. Lots of datum points and measurements.
IF YOU FAIL TO PLAN , then you're planning to fail .... as the saying goes.
Good luck with it Bob
kevin s
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Re: Sagged in the middle

Post by kevin s »

when I restored ours the door aperture was too short for the new door (it fitted but zero gap up the back), we didn't take the roof off or the inner sill and the gap was parallel but if you pushed the door further forward it fouled on the A pillar, in the end I slit the rear quarter vertically up the B post pushed it back and re-welded it. Only thing I can think is there are differences between doors or perhaps some of the ones in circulation are older pattern parts?
les
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Re: Sagged in the middle

Post by les »

Maybe I’m alone on this one but is it a good plan to alter things to suit another fault ? I can’t remember where I saw it, maybe some tv show, they were building a traveller but some welding was done that was wrong, so the timber wouldn’t fit. So what did they do —— they hacked the new timber frame about, until it fit the faulty body !

kennatt
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Re: Sagged in the middle

Post by kennatt »

yes les saw that as well,however as long as the car is still roadworthy,it keeps another classic on the road. But I have always doubted the practice of converting saloon to soft top,even with the conversion kit. Bit drastic to me but each to their own as they say
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