No problem starting, but can’t stop!

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geoberni
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Re: No problem starting, but can’t stop!

Post by geoberni »

I have is two white wires connected to one terminal of the switch and a brown/blue connected to the other (with no other wires). This differs from the brown/green mentioned above and I could not see anything matching that description.
Simmtec made a slip when he said Brown/Green.
If you reference the diagram that simmtec posted, they are numbered 9 and 36, which are White and Brown/Blue..
jagnut66 wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 11:20 am Then get hold of an electric screwdriver (link below) and reconnect the battery (make sure no wires are touching the bodywork first).
I'm afraid Mike really confused me, and perhaps you, by referring to an Electric Screwdriver. Only when I looked at his link did I realise he meant a Circuit tester. :lol:

The back of that looks normal, so however you go about it, circuit tester, multimeter or test lamp, what you need to do is check (when the Battery Isolator is ON) if the battery voltage is on the terminal which those 2 white wires are connected to.
That will confirm that the switch internals have shorted out.
If that is the case, then you've nothing to loose by taking it out of the car and taking it apart to see if it's fixable. It's no use to you at present.
Basil the 1955 series II

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jagnut66
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Re: No problem starting, but can’t stop!

Post by jagnut66 »

Sorry for any confusion. I would have edited it to say a 'simple circuit tester', unfortunately I am no longer able to edit my post.
Which seems a really quick loss of this option, considering I only posted it yesterday......

On the TSSC site the option to edit remains, even on my first introductory post from May last year.
Perhaps the permanent ability to edit is something we should ask for on any new forum site created for us?
Best wishes,
Mike.
1954 Series 2: 4 door: "Sally" -- Back on the ground with (slave) wheels and waiting to be resprayed......
1970 Triumph Herald 1200: "Hetty" -- Driven back from Llangollen in Wales (twice.....)
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geoberni
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Re: No problem starting, but can’t stop!

Post by geoberni »

jagnut66 wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 2:46 pm Sorry for any confusion. I would have edited it to say a 'simple circuit tester', unfortunately I am no longer able to edit my post.
Which seems a really quick loss of this option, considering I only posted it yesterday......

On the TSSC site the option to edit remains, even on my first introductory post from May last year.
Perhaps the permanent ability to edit is something we should ask for on any new forum site created for us?
Best wishes,
Mike.
No problem Mike.

I can answer the question about editing though, as I've seen it answered before.
I must admit, the time the editing function is available, does seem variable, possible available longer if nobody has written something following it.

And that is the core reason there is a lock on it.
As I understand it, long before I joined, it used to be available for ever; but there were certain disagreements that occurred and unscrupulous types went back and edited their past posts.
Thus causing a false record of the conversations that had taken place.
Since the the 'children' couldn't be trusted to play nicely, the lock on editing was put in place. :roll:
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Re: No problem starting, but can’t stop!

Post by Minor_Inconvenience »

geoberni wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 12:00 pm
I have is two white wires connected to one terminal of the switch and a brown/blue connected to the other (with no other wires). This differs from the brown/green mentioned above and I could not see anything matching that description.
Simmtec made a slip when he said Brown/Green.
If you reference the diagram that simmtec posted, they are numbered 9 and 36, which are White and Brown/Blue..
jagnut66 wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 11:20 am Then get hold of an electric screwdriver (link below) and reconnect the battery (make sure no wires are touching the bodywork first).
I'm afraid Mike really confused me, and perhaps you, by referring to an Electric Screwdriver. Only when I looked at his link did I realise he meant a Circuit tester. :lol:

The back of that looks normal, so however you go about it, circuit tester, multimeter or test lamp, what you need to do is check (when the Battery Isolator is ON) if the battery voltage is on the terminal which those 2 white wires are connected to.
That will confirm that the switch internals have shorted out.
If that is the case, then you've nothing to loose by taking it out of the car and taking it apart to see if it's fixable. It's no use to you at present.
So the strangest thing happened today.

A friend came over to teach me the basics and to have a look at her, as he LOVES cars, especially old ones.

We decided to move the isolator switch on the negative terminal, just to give little more space as it was in a really awkward place right at the back of the battery. It’s now infront of the battery and much easier to turn. The dial on the top was also really stiff, so gave it some WD40 treatment. Put it back together, turned the dial and nothing - the lights on the speedo didn’t come on. I decided to try the key and now the ignition in the car works! It makes zero sense as to how that could be possible (to my friend who knows stuff and to me from a pure logic perspective). I was about to order a new ignition barrel and try changing it and now all seems to be working fine.

Thought I would post the update here in case anyone has a view as to how. Because whilst I’m delighted to have it working, I really want to understand why it wasn’t and what could have changed.

Thanks to everyone for your help by the way!
David
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Re: No problem starting, but can’t stop!

Post by kennatt »

may have been wired as an anti theft device.
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geoberni
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Re: No problem starting, but can’t stop!

Post by geoberni »

My guess is that somehow the isolator was in parallel with the IGN switch, thus bypassing it, but now it's wired up correctly.

But without having been there and working through it, in a logical sequence, I can't prove it.

Just accept that it is now working....
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mike1864
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Re: No problem starting, but can’t stop!

Post by mike1864 »

This doesn't make sense at all. In terns of functionality, it shouldn't make any difference where in the circuit a single pole switch is placed. Is the OP sure that there wasn't ever a second (smaller) wire connected to the non-battery side of this isolator? This would form the bypass mentioned by others. Or perhaps there was an extra wire on the bulkhead post the battery live terminal was connected to; and this got left off in the isolator switch move.
If so, and it's simply been disconnected in the recent changeover and left danging, I'd go looking for it quickly. It seems it's connected to the ignition circuit and is therefore "live" when the ignition switch is turned on. If the bare ends (or connector) of this come into contact with the chassis, you'll get a spark, If it stays in contact, the wire - being unprotected by a fuse - will overheat and perhaps cause a fire.
An afterthought: this bypass wire never had to go to the "cold" side of the ignition switch itself. It could have gone to any component in the ignition-switched circuit, most obviously the coil. Are you sure this (an aluminium cylinder) doesn't have a third, newiish-looking, wire going to it?
As always, perform your poking around with the battery isolated.
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Re: No problem starting, but can’t stop!

Post by simmitc »

David (the original poster) could you please post some photos showing your battery in place with the isolator and the fusebox with all wires attached, then we might be able to see what's happening. Also, has a radio ever been fitted? Sometimes those battery isolator switches have a small wire to provide power to a radio as a "memory saver" connection. If that was present and had been wired back to the fusebox, then it could have been causing your issue. As suggested above, if the wire has come off, then you need to find out where the other end is and deal with it properly.
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geoberni
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Re: No problem starting, but can’t stop!

Post by geoberni »

As is frequently the case, there's lots of help being offered, but the feedback from the OP is sketchy.

We don't for example, know if this 'friend' who came over to 'teach basics' is any more competent at electrics than David is.

I agree with the recent few comments, it really needs getting to the bottom of, but I'm not convinced David or the Friend are capable of that level of electrical fault finding.
They seem to have agreed to go off on a tangent and move the isolator, before fixing this significant problem.
Someone competent at electrics, using a multimeter, should have sorted this within 30 minutes.

Yet here we are a month later.

A good set of photos, from different angles, might help work out what's going on.
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Re: No problem starting, but can’t stop!

Post by mike1864 »

Simmtic may have hit on the problem here. If there IS a radio fitted, I wonder if the installer took the permanently powered "memory saver" feed and landed it on both the radio's memory terminal AND its "normal" power terminal. This would feed permanent electricity backwards through the radio's ignition controlled cabling and thence on to the coil. ie this loop would have bridged the permanent and switched circuits together, making them both permanent; the original symptom.
Assuming this presence of the radio, a good test would have been: "Could you have switched the radio on even with the ignition switch turned off?" You shouldn't have been able to.
And now, does the radio now forget its stations after the isolation switch has been turned "OFF" for a while? If so, the memory wire (with dangerous permanent power on it) may be dangling somewhere.
But, as others have said, simply moving the isolator into the grounding connection cannot have remedied the inherent rogue wiring.
Can the OP confirm the presence of the radio. And I second the request for photos.
A helpful, and logical, friend is all very well. But no substitute for a man with a meter. Even with my degree in electronics, I'd struggle to diagnose a fault without a DVM. For some faults you need it for its continuity setting (ohms), not just the DC volts.
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Re: No problem starting, but can’t stop!

Post by mike1864 »

Has the OP resolved the core issue? As it is, we are left wondering if the lack of a progress report is because the car has burnt out after the ends of the (suspected) loose wire touched the chassis! :-?
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