Headlight outer bevel chrome inner diameter

[nwxh]

I converted my sealed beam headlamp to a halogen and the outer chrome bevel is loose despite it fitting over the sealed beam. What is the correct inner diameter. I measured 7" 3/16. Could it have simply stretched to a larger shape or did they change size at one point?

[oliver90owner]

Dunno, but you likely need to pack it out with something.

I doubt the halogen lamp supplier will change. Some after-market suppliers might supply a smaller outer, I suppose…

I hope you are changing both - not having odd headlamps.

[nwxh]

This side is more urgent as the sealed beam had gone. But the second side should be easier as I was trying to figure out where to place things. Unfortunately had to do electrical crimping for the earthing but not the two positive cables.

[geoberni]

Just a question for you...
Does your car have plastic or metal buckets behind the lights?

The reason I ask is that Basil had halogen lamps when I got him, which I have since replaced with LEDs, but the lamp units remained the same. He has one plastic bucket and one metal.
The plastic one is a really good fit for the outer Chrome, the metal bucket on the other hand, while not as obvious as your image, isn't that great a fit for the Chrome ring... Never has been.....

[nwxh]

Just a question for you...
Does your car have plastic or metal buckets behind the lights?

The reason I ask is that Basil had halogen lamps when I got him, which I have since replaced with LEDs, but the lamp units remained the same. He has one plastic bucket and one metal.
The plastic one is a really good fit for the outer Chrome, the metal bucket on the other hand, while not as obvious as your image, isn't that great a fit for the Chrome ring... Never has been.....

The one I took off is indeed the plastic bowl. But the kit included a metal bowl. Part of the reason is that I plan LEDs which ESM claims needs the metal bowl (is it just because you need somewhere to attach the spring - so much for "universal"), but the sealed beam blew pushing the job back. The new halogen bulb unit is slightly smaller than the sealed beam unit but not massively. It does look like the plastic bowl leads to a better grip though.

Is it your video where you cut back the plastic to fit LEDs?

I ordered two new from ESM. They did not measure the diameter of those in stock but said it should be around 2mm larger than the inner chrome bevel. I'll see if the two actually are.

[geoberni]

Yes, I made the video, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQQD9U6BWzw
I've done very little driving with the headlamps on but the plastic bowl hasn't been a problem so far.
If you look at that video, you'll see the metal bowl, with the inner metal 'holder' and it's that which is the one which doesn't fit that well.
When I get the time I think I'll experiment with removing the inner and see what the result is.

I see the LED lamps ESM sell are the ones with the additional power supply, Ballast or however they describe it..... So quite bulky.
I deliberately avoided those styles when I was researching LEDs.
A bit more research this morning on the Stella Lux kit, and I found that Bull Motive, on their Minispares website state

N.B. As clearance with these is very tight they can normally only be used with metal headlamp bowls.

So it appears the metal bowls might be slightly larger and it's not a concern about the heat inside the plastic bowl...

[nwxh]

I recorded the measurements of the old and new chromes:

Old inner diameter front 7" 1/16'  older diameter back 8" 5/16' 
New inner diameter front 7" 1/4' older diameter 8" 4/16

Unfortunately, I simply could not the new chrome outer bevels to fit over the top taps of the metal bowl. I don't know if it needs filing down but it seems impossible to get it in: essentially you'd need to compress the gaskets a lot. I'm not sure if anyone has any tricks? I even tried unscrewing the bowl but could only re-screw one once it was in. So the new chromes rest over the lamp and won't fall off but it doesn't look ideal at all.

[jagnut66]

Part of the reason is that I plan LEDs

Why?
Xenon or Halogen bulbs are perfectly bright enough.
You will also still be able use the plastic buckets, which should solve your outer bezel fitment problems.
Plus you won't be blinding other road users with excessively bright LED headlights.
Best wishes,
Mike.

[oliver90owner]

Plus you won't be blinding other road users with excessively bright LED headlights.

Why? Proper lighting should not dazzle anyone?

[nwxh]

I think there is a benefit of LED in reduced power consumption when in start stop traffic for a daily driver, even if there was no brightness benefit. I find the battery is draining rather than charging and pushed up the idle revs a little to counter. Adding a dash cam and tracker perhaps doesn't help.

As for brightness, unfortunately the halogens are insufficient to compete with cars in the last 10 years. It's not good that the Gov has let it go this way e.g. for cyclists. But it has, so LEDs are needed to go from being the dazzled to dazzler just to compete. In the test drive yesterday, the first car coming the other way was so bright, I had to slow right down.

It doesn't help that people will park with headlights on the wrong side of the road and when this happens, you can struggle to see pedestrians even with halogens. Of course this is illegal but the police are too busy (more serious crime or persecuting the innocent or assisting private companies/bayliffs?) to charge people for this. I am not aware of any charges in my lifetime. So what else can we do but join the crew of dazzlers?

[jagnut66]

unfortunately the halogens are insufficient to compete with cars in the last 10 years.

I didn't realize it was a competition...............

so LEDs are needed to go from being the dazzled to dazzler just to compete

But if we all do this it makes us just as bad as everybody else..........
Personally I find Xenons are bright enough, so will not be changing to LEDs just so I too can blind oncoming traffic.
I also doubt that this has anything to do with Governments, more likely it's modern car manufacturers trying to outdo each other, without thinking about the possible consequences, as usual.

Why? Proper lighting should not dazzle anyone?

It's nothing to do with 'proper lighting' or headlamp set up, it's to do with brightness levels and LEDs are unnecessary overkill. Then, as above, you just get every manufacturer trying to outdo each other and we all end up wearing sunglasses at night!
Best wishes,
Mike.

[nwxh]

unfortunately the halogens are insufficient to compete with cars in the last 10 years.

I didn't realize it was a competition...............

Sadly so, with the "loser" being unable to see properly. On the way back today, I missed a right turning while blinded but just about managed to not drive into the pavement or car dazzling me.

I noticed it is not too bad on a road which was recently one way for months which now has new streetlights (and cycle lanes).

so LEDs are needed to go from being the dazzled to dazzler just to compete

But if we all do this it makes us just as bad as everybody else..........

Agreed, but day by day a higher proportional of cars will be at that level. Seems like more than half of cars are too bright around here. Once everyone has brighter headlights, no one will be blinded as our eyes will adjusted, except sadly poor cyclists.

Personally I find Xenons are bright enough, so will not be changing to LEDs just so I too can blind oncoming traffic.
I also doubt that this has anything to do with Governments, more likely it's modern car manufacturers trying to outdo each other, without thinking about the possible consequences, as usual.

All these new cars have passed Vehicle Type Approval. The UK Government has failed to legislate by lumens and it appears the EU did was make sure those over 2,000 lumens have built in cleaners. So no authority has capped the total brightness.

Why? Proper lighting should not dazzle anyone?

It's nothing to do with 'proper lighting' or headlamp set up, it's to do with brightness levels and LEDs are unnecessary overkill. Then, as above, you just get every manufacturer trying to outdo each other and we all end up wearing sunglasses at night!

Totally agree. But if you cause damage, injury or death when being blinded, you will probably still be held responsible. The powers that be appeared to have made it our duty to upgrade headlamps rather than reduce the brightness of new cars.

But I would be intrigued to know how many lumans the Xenons you suggest have, as it seems some are 3,000 lumens, the same as the proposed LEDs? It may be that 2,000 lumens is enough to not be blinded? I cannot find any LEDs less than 3,000 lumens but at the same time have no desire to get more than that eg.g. the 4,500 lumens. :O

[oliver90owner]

Just wondering who is dim in this thread.

Lighting should not be set to dazzle. Dipped beam light distribution can be improved with modern headlights. Main beam is for when neither following, nor driving towards, oncoming traffic. LED lighting offers the same luminosity for a much reduced energy usage.

All the above misses the moron drivers who mis-use their lights. I could fit 150W halogen bulbs in my modern car (might need relays or better wiring) as used by rally drivers on high-speed night sections off road, but I won’t. My halogens are adequate for normal driving, but saving power for the same brightness would be a gain for me - especially if driving a BEV.

Fitting LED headlamps in reflectors designed for incandescents is illegal, so that goes into the moron driver category.

[jagnut66]

Just wondering who is dim in this thread.

No need for comments like that.
Just because someone disagrees with something or questions the necessity of something (in this case LED headlights), doesn't make them 'dim'.
Best wishes,
Mike.

[geoberni]

There's been some total garbage written here over the past few days, presumably from people who don't understand things like the different power consumptions of different lighting or the different legal requirements.

1 - No matter what your headlamps are, having them set to blind other drivers is illegal.
All headlamps have to be set to the correct Dip cut off as per the MOT test:
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/mot-inspect ... tion-4-1-2

It doesn't help that people will park with headlights on the wrong side of the road and when this happens, you can struggle to see pedestrians even with halogens. ...... I am not aware of any charges in my lifetime. So what else can we do but join the crew of dazzlers?

2 - Having another Ruddy Great Light to counter a Ruddy Great Light doesn't work. You'll still be dazzled, it's not like pointing 2 hose pipes against each other. Light is a Radiation Wavelength, pointing them at each other they just go past each other without affecting the opposing wavelength.
So countering an inconsiderate Jerk by being an opposing inconsiderate Jerk only results in 2 inconsiderate Jerks.

The law https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1989/1796/contents
also specifies the use of Dipped Beam in certain conditions and states that:

“Dipped beam” A beam of light emitted by a lamp which illuminates the road ahead of the vehicle without causing undue dazzle or discomfort to oncoming drivers or other road users.

3 - Then we have the question of Brightness, are LED or Xeon brighter?

Brightness depends on the specific bulbs you choose. Within the wide range of LED bulbs available there are some bulbs brighter than others. The same is true for Xenon HID bulbs. So, some LED bulbs are brighter than some Xenon HID bulbs, but some Xenon HID bulbs are brighter than some LED bulbs.
Note: What is different is that High-intensity discharge (HID) lights, filled with xenon gas to make them more effective, are technically illegal in the UK. The Lighting Regs above don't mention them.
However, they are perfectly fine under EU regulations. So this is a bit of a grey area: The law allows for EU cars registered in the UK to be fitted with HID xenon lights. But the Department for Transport generally treats the sale and use of aftermarket HID lighting kits as illegal.

Next the statement ....

Fitting LED headlamps in reflectors designed for incandescents is illegal, so that goes into the moron driver category.

4 - No they're not.
I posted on this back in April. They made it an MOT fail for all vehicles in Jan '21, but then in March '21 included a caveat exempting vehicles pre 1986.

This topic had gone way down a rabbit hole from the question about Headlamp Rings....

[JOWETTJAVELIN]

It is extremely unpleasant to drive during darkness now. There used to be dim-dip and before that, sidelights, to make the vehicle visible under such conditions as dusk or well-lit roads, where you could see well enough to drive. The eye cannot see when a direct light is shone at it. The area around the light source is also nigh impossible to define. It’s just another case of things getting worser in this topsy-turvy world. There used to be yellow glasses sold for night drivers to reduce glare. I’ve never tried them so don’t know if they work, or can still be bought. My own lighting set on the Minor consists of the standard Lucas 700 headlamps with 414 bulbs, and an SLR 576 spot lamp which throws a long pencil beam.

[geoberni]

There used to be yellow glasses sold for night drivers to reduce glare. I’ve never tried them so don’t know if they work, or can still be bought.

Yes they are still readily available and can even be brought with prescription lenses.

https://uk.bestreviews.guide/night-driving-glasses

They basically work by filtering and scattering out Blue light, which is major part of 'White' light as particularly obvious with Xenon lights. So you might say there's more need for them now that there was 40 years ago.

[jagnut66]

Thanks for the link Berni, I've just bought a pair of these:
https://uk.bestreviews.guide/redirect?r ... HUUs%3D%0A
I'll let people on here know what they're like....
Best wishes,
Mike.

[MCYorks]

It is extremely unpleasant to drive during darkness now. There used to be dim-dip and before that, sidelights, to make the vehicle visible under such conditions as dusk or well-lit roads, where you could see well enough to drive. The eye cannot see when a direct light is shone at it. The area around the light source is also nigh impossible to define. It’s just another case of things getting worser in this topsy-turvy world. There used to be yellow glasses sold for night drivers to reduce glare. I’ve never tried them so don’t know if they work, or can still be bought. My own lighting set on the Minor consists of the standard Lucas 700 headlamps with 414 bulbs, and an SLR 576 spot lamp which throws a long pencil beam.

I agree it's not great driving at night now. Vehicle lighting appears to have become a bit of a 'free for all' over the last few years, despite all the regulations. Some people just seem fit whatever they want. Too bright, too dim, wrong colour, etc. Sequential and alternating direction indicators! With modern technology like LED's, all lighting and signals should be much easier to see day or night. However, that doesn't seem to be the case with some modern vehicles

The old 414 bulbs are ok, but the glass envelope darkens over time and reduces the light output. My Minor came with Wipac 7" headlamps, fitted with standard 55/60w H4 halogen bulbs. I find they give great visibility, without dazzling other drivers. Providing they are clean and properly adjusted of course They did finish off the poor old dynamo but that's another story

[JOWETTJAVELIN]

Yes Halogen bulbs are a good idea if the reflector/holder will take them. I fitted Halogen bulbs to one of my other cars and was well pleased. Another has factory fitted sealed beams which are great but hard to find now.