'Smart' motorways

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Do you agree that smart motorways implementation should be halted until an enquiry is held?

Yes
120
95%
No
6
5%
 
Total votes: 126

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geoberni
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Re: 'Smart' motorways

Post by geoberni »

Flywheel wrote: Tue Aug 31, 2021 9:24 pm Dun &Bradstreet.com list the following private company: (Ultimate parent)

HIGHWAYS ENGLAND COMPANY LIMITED, doing business as Highways England.

I will post a link to the site and we may have an idea of their annual revenue 2021.

Why mess around with an American website?
You could just go to Companies House....
https://find-and-update.company-informa ... y/09346363

Or get the Annual Report here: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... active.pdf
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Flywheel
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Re: 'Smart' motorways

Post by Flywheel »

Bernie, I did search but I couldn't find anything.

I've heard a few friends say that some companies have been sanitised off the Web, so I decided to look up the American one.

Thanks for posting.👍
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geoberni
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Re: 'Smart' motorways

Post by geoberni »

Flywheel wrote: Wed Sep 01, 2021 12:09 pm Bernie, I did search but I couldn't find anything.

I've heard a few friends say that some companies have been sanitised off the Web, so I decided to look up the American one.

Thanks for posting.👍
I use Companies House search every so often, for various work related reasons.

If it's a PLC, Ltd or LLP* it's registered with Companies House.

*LLP is Limited Liability Partnership, it's like a Ltd Co, but used by professional types, Accountants, Solicitors, Doctors etc to separate themselves from their business liabilities.
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Flywheel
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Re: 'Smart' motorways

Post by Flywheel »

Bernie, noted thanks.👍
What contemptible scoundrel has stolen the cork to my lunch? :roll:
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Murrayminor
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Re: 'Smart' motorways

Post by Murrayminor »

This post may throw a spanner in the works, but from a traffic management point of view I can "sort" of understand the need behind the Smart motorway thinking.
The number of vehicles using any given road is increasing year on year so the powers that be have to come up with more ideas to increase traffic flow at peak periods.
All smart motorways have emergency refuges at either 500 or 800 metres, so the thinking behind it is that a vehicle with issues can almost coast to a safe refuge.
Unfortunately when some people get into difficulties on any road their first reaction is to brake and stop when if the vehicle was allowed to coast it can travel a fair distance before coming to a halt.
The other issue is people using unroadworthy vehicles on the motorway network,the simplest of checks can save a potential hazardous situation, tyres,water.oil etc are easily checked but its very rarely done before people venture out onto the roads.

What we need is better driver training, better lane discipline, and an introduction to motorway driving right from the outset.

The number of people who don't know how to use a motorway is frightening.

Now having said the above I don't believe smart motorways are the way forward but I can understand why they are needed.
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les
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Re: 'Smart' motorways

Post by les »

Well it’s nice to hear a different point of view, and agree the roads are packed out but coasting to the nearest refuge from the outside lane might prove quite a challenge, and if the other two lanes are full, pretty risky, especially if no power to indicate !

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Re: 'Smart' motorways

Post by Flywheel »

Murrayminor, makes a number of reasonable points. However I think that Governments needed to do more homework, before scrapping the hard shoulder.

Many of us in our everyday cars, have been subjected to the mindless clot, who drives like a complete and utter dangerous idiot We've also seen this on ordinary motorways and around our towns. Very scary.

So what is the solution? I agree better driver training for one, with more emphasis on vehicle safety checks perhaps. It may do for starters.

As for me, I want the whole thing stopped, with the hard shoulder reinstated. We must have more consultation.

I sincerely hope that common sense will prevail here, with our politicians thinking more about our people than the directorships that gives a few of them a nice little earner.

I make no apologies for my cynicism. Keep safe folks.
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Re: 'Smart' motorways

Post by jagnut66 »

We must have more consultation.
This though is exactly why they don't like to consult the public, not unless they absolutely have to.
The government (of whatever political colour) / local council bodies know full well that they won't get the answers they want to hear / want us to give them.
So they ignore us and go ahead anyway, we can protest but it will fall on deaf ears.
As I've said earlier, they'd much rather put up with a few dozen deaths on these 'smart' (read stupid) motorways than admit that they were in any way wrong............ :evil:
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Mike.
1954 Series 2: 4 door: "Sally" -- Back on the ground with (slave) wheels and waiting to be resprayed......
1970 Triumph Herald 1200: "Hetty" -- Driven back from Llangollen in Wales (twice.....)
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Re: 'Smart' motorways

Post by Murrayminor »

To be fair I now travel the length and breadth of the country in my own vehicle, a 6.5 ton recovery truck but would I do the same distance in a classic car, I doubt it very much, in fact i would steer clear of motorways for the whole of the journey if I was in my Minor.

i once had sight of an official document which stated there are "acceptable losses " factored into the building and upkeep of motorways in the UK, those losses were not vehicles or equipment, they were people.

If the Government allow such things to happen at the planning stage how can mere users be kept safe.

i will continue to use the smart motorways but as always look ahead and prepare to move lane or stop if the need arises.

I will again beat the drum about advanced driving and using the skills you learn can save a life.
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Flywheel
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Re: 'Smart' motorways

Post by Flywheel »

"This though is exactly why they don't like to consult the public, not unless they absolutely have to"


Mike, it certainly gives me cause for concern when politicians in Westminster or local authority fail to listen.

My last job involved me working as a teaching assistant in a special educational needs school.
From the outset, I became very concerned over the state of disrepair to the school building.

The actual school was a pre-fabricated building; (remember those anyone) erected on the site in 1955. It had received some remedial work over the years, but it was still crumbling away.

To cut a long story short. After consulting the Head Teacher, I and a number of colleagues wrote to the leader of the council, the local Member of Parliament and concerned parents/ carers.

On the day of the meeting , the Member of Parliament failed to show up, with no message from her office absolutely nothing.(I was furious)

The Leader of the council, then made an appearance and I was fortunate to pounce on him straight away.
I politely asked this man, why was the school building in such a state of disrepair, The Leader explained that this regrettable situation, was due to 'austerity' although he would consult with the school's senior management team.

I then gave the Leader a copy of a Freedom of information request. A colleague of mine had asked how much money did the council spend on refreshments over a three year period. The answer was a staggering £40K.

He glanced at the FOIR, and then retorted "We deserve our refreshments". To which I replied; "Not at 40 Grand you don't" "you could have put that tea and biscuits money into this school". He then returned the piece of scandalous evidence to me and walked away.

Apologies for my off topic story. Although in my opinion we all need to keep an eye on politicians. All of them, and if it's of interest to any contributors on here have a look at a website called WhatDoTheyKnow.com

There is a wealth of information on the site, and it's all kept in the public domain.
Jonnie.👍
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jagnut66
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Re: 'Smart' motorways

Post by jagnut66 »

i once had sight of an official document which stated there are "acceptable losses " factored into the building and upkeep of motorways in the UK, those losses were not vehicles or equipment, they were people.
If that is true then it is utterly disgraceful and the whole of Westminster derserves to be pulled down, with all the politicians in it!
No human life should be considered an 'acceptable loss', that in itself is not acceptable! :evil:

He glanced at the FOIR, and then retorted "We deserve our refreshments". To which I replied; "Not at 40 Grand you don't" "you could have put that tea and biscuits money into this school". He then returned the piece of scandalous evidence to me and walked away.

Apologies for my off topic story. Although in my opinion we all need to keep an eye on politicians. All of them, and if it's of interest to any contributors on here have a look at a website called WhatDoTheyKnow.com
No need for apologies, it fits in with this discussion, it also kind of makes my previous point.
Best wishes,
Mike.
1954 Series 2: 4 door: "Sally" -- Back on the ground with (slave) wheels and waiting to be resprayed......
1970 Triumph Herald 1200: "Hetty" -- Driven back from Llangollen in Wales (twice.....)
Flywheel
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Re: 'Smart' motorways

Post by Flywheel »

Thanks Mike, since my retirement from school. I've been undertaking a little research.

I was curious to find out that if so called 'public bodies' could spend £40K on their refreshments, then what else could be happening with our hard earned tax money.

Again apologies for straying off topic. However if Governments/councils bemoan the fact that their coffers are totally bare, then who or what is being economical with the truth?

No wonder the pensionable age is increasing. I was lucky to only lose one year, from aged 65 to 66. My wife has lost six years. She is aged 66 in 2022.
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Re: 'Smart' motorways

Post by MCYorks »

The government has announced, new "all-lane running" smart motorways have been paused for 5 years, while their safety is assessed.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59956911
However, hard shoulders will not be reinstated on current stretches of all-lane running motorways. Apparently, schemes that are already under construction will be completed. While, existing all-lane running motorways, will be provided with £390m of public money for more refuge areas and technology to detect stopped vehicles. Sounds like delaying tactics IMO :roll:

If after this 5 year period, ALR smart motorways are deemed to be too dangerous, then they will have exposed people to that increased risk for 5 years longer than necessary. Alternatively, should they be assessed as safe enough, it's likely to mean that the number of people killed on smart motorways hasn't reached the required 'threshold' for them to admit their mistake and reinstate the hard shoulder :-?

So, presently they are spending vast sums of public money on technology to try and compensate for removing the hard shoulder. The problem with these 'active' solutions is, if there is a power cut or technical fault, then the technology becomes useless. It's okay as an additional safety feature, but not as the main safety mechanism. Otherwise, you may as well argue something like, you can maximise space in a building by removing all the fire exits and stair wells, but simply compensate for the increased risk by adding more smoke detectors and fire extinguishers! :o

The hard shoulder is a 'passive' safety feature, just like the crash barrier in the central reservation. It just being 'there' makes the road safer. :D
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Re: 'Smart' motorways

Post by simmitc »

I heard a very interesting interview with a chap who seemed to be involved with the original scheme. He said that there was never any intention for ALR at all times. The concept was to reduce congestion at peak times when traffic was solid and nearly stationary. Once congestion had cleared and speeds were returning to normal, then the hard shoulder would be closed as used in the traditional way.

I am still absolutely against permanent ALR, but have slightly less concern about using the hard shoulder if traffic is moving at less than 20 mph, and I can see the logic of that idea. Whether it is really possible to control the lane to that degree and whether the average driver would be able to understand the system remains open to debate. Either way, it seems that the original idea has been somewhat corrupted.
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Re: 'Smart' motorways

Post by MorrisJohn »

I recently had my first experience of these ‘smart’ motorways on the M5 (both directions). I read the above post with interest as traffic was running at up to 50mph with all lanes open in both directions. The hard shoulder often being used by impatient drivers as a way to undertake vehicles before cutting back in.

When travelling southbound I observed a red X in lane one, which of course some drivers missed or ignored. The red X was due to a stranded broken down vehicle in that live lane. There was a car stopped behind it indicating to change lane, which had ignored or missed the red X.

It showed me how these roads can very easily can lead to terrible collisions in the event of a breakdown.

I didn’t like driving on them one bit and I’d be absolutely terrified if I broke down on one with my family in the car. Removing a safety feature like the hard shoulder is not progress. Modern cars still, and always will, break down!
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Re: 'Smart' motorways

Post by JudyP »

Personally, I'm concerned about EMT vehicles trying to reach emergencies without a dedicated "lane" (the hard shoulder). They'd have to negotiate the traffic same as the rest of us, whereas with a hard shoulder that's clear, they can just shoot up the inside of all the regular traffic, saving time and possibly lives, too.
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geoberni
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Re: 'Smart' motorways

Post by geoberni »

JudyP wrote: Wed Jul 20, 2022 2:59 pm Personally, I'm concerned about EMT vehicles trying to reach emergencies without a dedicated "lane" (the hard shoulder). They'd have to negotiate the traffic same as the rest of us, whereas with a hard shoulder that's clear, they can just shoot up the inside of all the regular traffic, saving time and possibly lives, too.
Well that would be no problem if we taught people to follow the rule used in several other countries, that if on a dual carriageway and the traffic gets stationary for some reason, then the line on the Right pulls to the right and the Left lane pulls to the left, leaving a centre access route.

Too many drivers are just idiots.
I was walking around Norwich last week and heard a Police Siren, for the 3rd time in about 15 minutes. Looking along the road, I saw a Police Bike coming my direction down a small hill, rapidly approaching the rear of a little Suzuki 4WD thing.
There was nothing going the other way so they Bike had a full opposite side of the road to pass the Suzuki.
The person driving it clearly panicked at the sound of the siren, indicated to pull over and mounted the kerb!!
For a Bike of all things!
We need to teach proper response to Emergency Vehicles approaching.
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Re: 'Smart' motorways

Post by Maurice_Minor »

As soon as you hear the word "Smart" being bandied about. Know this, the ultimate aim of this "Smart" technology is to control your behaviour. For example "Smart meters", it seems all very laudable & look at all the paper their saving, "hey their saving the planet!" I hear you cry. No they are not. They don't give a damn about the planet. All they care about is profit & control & now the energy companies are out of control.
Now you have "Smart" tech in your car, so they know how, where & when you drive
Millions now live in homes where their heating & lighting is controlled by their smart meters. Houses no longer have open fireplaces or water tanks in the loft.
This has left us all very vulnerable to being controlled.
Within 10-15 years the authorities will start checking & interfering on how your heat your homes, where & how you drive, what food you eat, etc etc etc.
This new totalitarianism will be rolled out under the guise of "Net zero" & "caring" & all the other PC buzz words you hear.
So to return to the topic of "Smart motorways" they are willing lose the hard shoulder & cause death & injury, so they can track when & where you are travelling & presumably one day charge you per mile as well.
The ultimate aim is to stop you travelling at all, whether it be by road or air & keep you contained within a small area around your home.its already happening, banks closing, cash points being removed, on-line shopping, the decimation of the high st.
We are to be permanently locked down.
Hopefully, we, the Moggie owners, the enlightened, the Chosen ones, the "Keepers of our Heritage" will be still permitted to continue to swan around in our steel, bug eyed chariots, if only to cheer up the downtrodden masses trudging to & from their daily toil at the bug farms.
Sadly, one day they will come for us to.
We must relish our status as "Heritage owners" while it still lasts.
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Re: 'Smart' motorways

Post by les »

Sounds like you can still apply for an optimism bypass though ! :o

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Re: 'Smart' motorways

Post by Maurice_Minor »

smithskids wrote: Sun Mar 01, 2020 6:06 pm I have also read recently the the "green" electric cars just stop when they go wrong and can dump you in the fast lane, never mind the smart inside lane. Maybe they should have ejector seats fitted biased to propel you onto the grass?!! Get the hydrogen conversions going then we can all be clean. Cut air travel down a bit, that will clean up the air.
That's the problem with battery powered cars. When they die, they die. Stone dead, no splutter, no lurching, just dead in the water.If this has happened & I'm sure it has, then you can be sure you will never hear about it.

The "narrative" is FOSSIL FUEL VEHICLES= BAD,BAD,BAD / ELECTRIC POWERED VEHICLES=GOOD,GOOD,GOOD.
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