Full Body Respray

[philcordiner]

Hi All,

First post on here ever - so here goes.

As a fairly new Moggy Owner, I am looking for someone in Ayrshire, Scotland who comes recommended and is good value for money to give my Series II a full body respray.

I've started preparing the car for respray but have heard that a lot of places won't accept cars that have already been prepared.

Any advice appreciated!!

[Futurebobbers]

Spraying paint onto a car is quite a skill, at least doing it well is. As such, many painters are under the impression that mixing a little Azure blue and spraying it onto the wing of a scuffed Fiesta makes them Picasso.

Therefore, if you find one of these painters no prep work will be good enough unless it's his.

I don't know how much preperation you've done, but my advice would be to find a paint shop before you do any more and decide with them what you can do which they will make them happy.

Granted, I have known people use entirely inappropriate paint strippers and cause the need for a few hundred pounds worth of extra barrier treatment pre-painting. But a bit of sanding couldn't hurt.

You shouldn't mask a car before sending it to your sprayer as this is the same as insulting the artist's mother.

I will be spraying at home next time, even if it means ten million aerosols from Halfords.

[chickenjohn]

No need to go to Halfrauds as ESM, among others sell the cans of cellulose in the correct Moggie colours.

[guydenning]

You shouldn't mask a car before sending it to your sprayer as this is the same as insulting the artist's mother.

splendid!

[brixtonmorris]

what happened to the "customers always right" if he wants to do the prep and mask, thats fine. why should the sprayer be worried as longs as he gets paid for his time. if the prep or masking not up to standard thats the owners problem, not the sprayer.
many body shop employ panel beaters/fillers, sanders, maskers sprayers and finishers, if there getting enough work. they are each individual skills, the sprayer may not be a very good filler worker/ panel beater. and so on

[jonathon]

Depends on the bodyshop and whether they are prepared to take the risk of their good respray being ruined by poor prep that is not visible under a layer of primer. If the car has just been rubbed down and filler applied straight on top of the old paint , this will cause the painters more problems. There is no doubt that some folk are competant in self prep,but they are far outweighed by those who think they are. There is also the question of the quality of finish,and quality and type of paint. A poorly preped car will always look poorly painted no matter how good the painter is. Cheap paint will not hold up as well as a quality one. Many bodyshops will take on such projects and do exactly what the customer wants in terms of type of paint and budget. However they will prpobably not give a warranty or careless if the paint bubbles up after a few months. I'm afraid unless we can be sure that the prep work has been performed to our standards, then we will not undertake the respray. There are just too many variables in prep that can ruin a good final respray. Find a good bodyshop and you will be glad for it in the long run.

[chickenjohn]

Brixton, Jonathon, do you think its possible to get a good finish at home?? If so, do you have any tips for the hopeful DIY painter? All I've done is prepd and sprayed a few panels using cans and a lot of care and rubbing down. Whether the finish stays good is another matter, but I'm willing to have a go and learn from mistakes and take good advice.

I quite fancy getting a compressor and spraygun. Maybe a 14cfm with a large tank and a DeVeBliss JGA. Or should I get smaller compressor and a cheaper gun??

[Kevin]

Well John our branch chairmans Traveller which has been in Grand Masters concours for the last 8 years was sprayed at home, most of it in the garden, and its the only Traveller in councours let alone to have reached Grand Masters status, so yes its quite possible.

[brixtonmorris]

Hi chickenjohn.
you can paint it at home, espically now that the summers here.
the metal will be warm and you may enjoy it.
1st thing buy a compresser. its cheaper then areosol cans, and the finish will be better.
buy 5ltr can of primer filler, cellious. (cant spell that) and 5ltr top coat cel also. this should be enough although its possible with less. thinners, poss ten litres, if not more, u also need it for cleaning the gun.
dont buy de villibs, to expensive if your not prof, you just wont use it enough.
£50/ £150 get some good guns £50 for primer gun, may be a top coat gun if you feel like it. but finner nozel is fine on primer gun.
do the filler work, sand it all flat and put a thick layer of primer on the car. then cut right through to get a flat surface , just like a canvas for painting.
then the top coat, drips dont, matter you cut them out before polishing.
polish and wax and sit back and enjoy.
you need sanding paper washing up liquid a few other things, masking tape.
if you need, we can all advise you on the compresser to buy, and help with advise as you procede through the job. its a great thing to do if youve got the time.
that minor bonnet look great polised when your driving, espically if you did it yourself

[brixtonmorris]

get a cat from shire moor compressors, some where in lancashire i think.
you will find ad in small ads in classic bike mag. there good and have good machines there
inc welding machines
cya

[bigginger]

It's worth warning the neighbours too, 'cos it SMELLS!

[chickenjohn]

Thanks Brixton! (and sorry Phil for the thread hijack!).

So with a spray gun, I won't have to do quite as much flatting as I had to to get a smooth finish as I did with aerosol cans?? (it was either orange peel or runs-) I guess there is a happy medium between where you get a decent finish "out of the gun"??

I did enjoy painting the wing, front panel and ali panels that go in the wood- not perfect by any means but much better finish than I expected- just took a lot of rubbing down and flatting. I got me a tub of G3- its good stuff!

I'll have a look at that catalogue- any particular spray guns that you reccomend?? I guess, I select the gun, then buy a compressor that can deliver the CFM the gun needs??

again, thanks!

[jonathon]

There are two schools of thought regarding DIY resprays. One is to spend as little as possible on equipment and materials but loads of time on cutting back runs and endless flatting and polishing. Cheap yes but not always gratifying.
Route two is to purchase or rent decent equipment and good paint. Having these will make the job so much easier and a good enough finish. To only flat back and polish.
Make sure all of your filling is done on bare metal and blown off with an air gun before applying additional layers, and again before you primer. Normally I would suggest two coats of etch primer, but if spraying in a residential area ,don't use it as it is particulary evil stuff and carsonagenic. Two to three coats of etch primer should be sufficient but follow the instructions and allow each coat atleast 15 mins to flash off, this means alllowing the propellants in the paint to disperse, if you do not do this then you will end up with "puddle" when the paint will take an eternity to cure and will not adhere to the bodywork. Once the primer is dry, leave for at least 12 hours, take a spray can preferably black, hold about a foot away from the car and lightly dust all of the surface.This is called a guide coat, which will show up any high or low spots in the bodywork.Wet flat this surface with a proper flatting block and either 600 or 800 grit flatting paper.Use plenty of warm clean water and a low salt content washing liquid. Use the flatting block in a circular movement to eliminate the chances of ruts. You can then see where you need to either re shape or knock back the bodywork. Small pinholes can be filled with cellulose stopper. Make sure that the car is fully dry and panel wiped before you start your top coat.Mix the paint to the specified ratios, and strain through a fine filter into the pot of your gun practice od some paper to check that the fan pattern is correct and that you have the correct ratio of air to paint. When satisfied the set up is good start on the returns of the front window,and scuttle panel, then move onto the roof starting in the middle and working the full length, be sure to paint all returns around the windows and back spray the guttering. Move to the otherside of the car and repeat, pick up where you left off on the scuttle panel and spray down the hinge pillar, the complete door shuts and round the back of the car then forward to the pick up point on the scuttle panel. Move onto the engine bay spray fully and end up on the tops of the flitch panels. If spraying with the wings on the obviously incorporate these whilst working your way around. The first coat you put on should not colour up the car, it is a coat called a hanger coat which is essentially a fine coat to bond to the primer and supply a good surface to apply the following coats. Build up each coat gradually until you have achieved a total colour coverage. If using cellulose you should apply atleast 5 coats as you may well be cutting back several of these.
Once the top coat is dry, again at least 12 hours, you can if required cut back the paint with 2000 grit flatting paper and a block, use plenty of clean water when doing this. When dry you will see where you have flatted, nice flat paint as opposed to orange peel or dry areas. When happy with your flatting use a flatting compound to regain the shine, followed by liberal hand polishing.
The more you leather your car the better the finish, just keep on polishing with a low abrasive polish and you will have a half decent paint job.
Good luck!

[chickenjohn]

Thats great! Thanks Jonathon!

Just a few small questions- Jonathon, Brixton (sorry lots more questions!) :-

1. My understanding it that etch primer is only really needed on aluminium, steel is ok with normal primer, am I thinking along the right lines??

2. "back spray the guttering" , could you explain further please?

3. I should mask the interior of the car off, if spraying the whole body but not the interior?? - using proper masking paper and not just newspaper??

4. I've read some advice where they paint the removable panels seperately from the body, i.e. paint the wing off the car etc- I guess this is ok with the same batch of paint? it should all match??

5. I've done a bit of filling on the panels that I painted, but if using brand new wings is filling necessary?? With a new wing, why not just prime and rub down.

6. I've heard conflicting information about the black paint that replacement body panels come in- is it really necessary to strip all this off, or is it ok to scotch pad it to get a key before applying primer?? (I've seen this done on the telly).

7. My garage is not big enough to get around the whole car, I can only work on one side at a time, is it ok to paint one half of the car at a time or will the join be forever visible? ;)

sorry for so many questions, hopefully won't take too long to answer!

[ptitterington]

Jonathon, what a fantastic post. I just wish I had read it last week.

Still mostly I think I have got it ok Just some of the panels that were really shiny I gave a 1200 flat and polished with a corser compound then a 1200 compound (from the paint shop) but the finish after a polish is worse than the gun finish, what to do, More fine paste buffing? or polish with electric polisher??

Also apologies for posting within a post but I think so far it has all been pretty relevant

[SR]

ello lads,6 years ago i restored a spitfire, my mate thats a paint sprayer went on top of old paint ,[he used 2-pack], not bare metal, useing some kind of sealer i think, would u advise this or is bare metal the only way, also on my other moggys , the celly paint peels ,cracks and flakes, how can this be avoided? and finally ,could u get away with a double filter rubber mask for etch primer, and would i be able to buy it , not being a pro? cheers mark,jonathon

[Multiphonikks]

Out of interest, how many people actually take the paint back to completely bare metal? I've seen the layers piled onto Hebe (at least she appears to have many, many layers) and when I restore her I'm planning on sandblasting her clean.

Am I guessing that a professional sprayer will be fine with a car which has been sandblasted and cleaned prior to sending it to them?

Nikki.

[jonathon]

Re painting questions

Chickenjohn, etch primer must be used on aluminium,plastic and for best adhesion steel. You can purchase a combination etch/primer, I only know of this being available in two pack.
Back spraying the gutter,basically means that when spraying the roof you should start by blowing in the top of the guttering,allow a few mins for it to flash off then continue spraying the roof from the center out,overlapping each pass of the gun
I know of some proifessional body shops who use newspaper, I always use proper 54" masking paper as I was taught that the print on the newspaper is not condusive to clean spraying.
We mainly deal with full resprays, which by their nature determine the seperate spraying of all panels.
Most new wings we find are in need of re-shaping around the top edge of the headlamp and to blend in the joins on the front edge and face.
beware the black primer!!. you do not know what is underneath this stuff so we always remove it so we can offer a warranty on our resprays. The C.Ware panels are particulary bad in this respect as under the primer is a lot of surface rust, a bye product of using inferior steel.
Try and spray the whole car in one go or you will have problems loosing the join, also the second batch of paint even if from the same tin may mix differently and not match you first .
You can succesfully paint onto an existing painted surface, so long as its fully keyed and panel wiped. The problems in doing this are that you run the risk of re activating the underlying paint and filler (if it has been used) this leads to sinks in the paint around the affected area. You can apply a barrier or isolation coat to seal the original but I have limited knowledge of this option.
You can purchase etch from you local paintstore, its even available in aerosols, possibly a good choice for the home DIY'r as you can do a little at a time. Ask the paintstore which mask they would recommend for your choice of paint.
Remeber though that its not always the paint that can kill you, gun wash and standard thinners are equally lethal.
Nikki sandblasting is the ideal method of finding and curing your tin worm,if you go this route make sure that the operators are experienced in blasting cars, the reason being that I has an Alfa in for a full rebuild and the blaster has damages every panel, some beyond repair. Also make sure that all of the sand is removed it gets everywhere and if not fully removed will rot your car out in no time at all. Once blasted and cleaned make sure that the car is etched as soon asd possible ,even a hand layed on the bodywork will start surface rust forming. Be prepared for a shock when the car has been blasted as the process is very thorough.

[plastic_orange]

I'll post a picture of a minor 1000 front panel that I had bead blasted recently - it appeared sound when I sent it, but it is now rather frilly - I'll also post a picture of an MM panel done at the same time as a comparison.
Blasters shouldn't be using sand - this is apparantly illegal - free silicas, but instead use other media. I can supply details if you like as my friend has a blasting business and is well versed in doing complete cars. You will be surprised at what you get back, and the amount of work to get the shell into a paintable condition should not be underestimated. I would personally suggest getting the underneath done, gutters etc, and avoid any unsupported flat panel areas.

[chickenjohn]

Thanks Jonothan, thats brilliant! I really appreciate you taking the time to read my questions and answer them!

I feel condfident that I could get decent results.

I'm going to get me a spray gun and compressoor- and will follow up Brixtons tip of Shiremoor

http://www.shiremoorcompressors.co.uk/

again, thanks