Faulty oil pump?

[MorrisGoa]

Hi,

I had given my 1970, 1098cc 4 door saloon for non engine related work. Unfortunately for various reasons, the car remained with the mechanic for 2 years without starting.

After being started recently it was taken up a steep hill for testing on first gear at high rev(35 kmph) to a distance of 300 meters. On reaching the top of the hill we stopped & noticed that there was oil dripping (about 10 ml on the ground) around the rear cork sump seal. Few drops from the dip stick sleeve and a drop or two on the front tappet cover.

Thinking it to be a minor issue the car was driven for about a total of just 20kms over the course of the week. At the end of that, the engine oil had fallen below minimum level (was noticed since the engine was knocking).

A litre of fresh oil was poured (around minimum level or just below) & the car started for a minute. After turning off, he opened the oil filler cap & inserted his finger & touched some components in there. He suggests to me that they should be oily even if the oil is below minimum & the car is started for just a minute. He suspects the oil pump.

1. Should his finger have oil residue in the above circumstances?

2. How to know if the oil pump is malfunctioning?

The workshop manual (pics below) doesn't contain any information about identifying a faulty oil pump.

Multiple other problems (electrical, etc.) have cropped up & I want to start with oil issue.

Many thanks.

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[philthehill]

There should be oil around the rockers which should transfer to a finger if put in through the oil filler cap.
Normally if the engine is running and the oil filler cap is removed oil can be seen to be spraying around inside the rocker cover.
The only way to check if the oil pump is working correctly and efficiently is to put an oil pressure gauge to the system.
You have oil being pumped around the engine as shown by the drips/leaks.
If the engine has not been run for two years it may be that the oil pressure relief valve is stuck in the open position but it is very unlikely to be the problem.
Was the engine oil changed after the two years of non running?
Crud from the sump could be blocking the oil transfer passage from block to head.
Have you changed the rocker shaft?
The later rocker shafts are secured by No:2 rocker shaft pillar which means that if No:1 original rocker shaft pillar is replaced by No:2 rocker shaft pillar there may be no way that oil can get from the head to the rocker shaft as the original No:2 rocker shaft pillar is nor drilled to enable oil to pass through it.
So you have plenty to go on but put an oil pressure gauge to the system and that will tell you more than any guess work.

[kennatt]

are you saying a mechanic took the car out and after standing for two years Thrashed it in first gear (35kph.....approx20mph)up a steep hill then drove it for a week without making sure,bearing in mind it had oil leaks,that the oil level was on full If this is what you are saying FIND ANOTHER MECHANIC. So anyway... after a long stand its often the case that the seals and gaskets dry out and start to leak ,one of the main causes of oil leaks on a minor engine, is crank case pressure,caused by blow past the piston rings,made worse,even in a good engine by a blocked crank case breather pipe.
If the engine has run short of oil and been run to the point of knocking,then it is highly likely that the crank shaft and bearings have been damaged
The finger in the rocker cover proves nothing except that there is no oil getting to the rocker shaft,IF ,and I say If his finger was dry.
could simply be that the small oil feeder hole in the shaft need clearing.

so More info needed When running is there a sign of blue smoke coming out of the tail pipe.This indicates oil burning and the
quickest way to empty the sump of oil.
when hot ,take the oil filler cap off and see if there is any fumes being blown out of the cover,a sure sign of
excessive crankcase pressure.Cuased by wear in the cylinders and a blocked breather pipe.
since it has knocked,it would be advisable to have the oil pressure checked,any good mechanic will have a
oil pressure guage to fit to check it.
It would also be extremely helpful to see what compression figures you have (Again mechanic should have a
tester.)
Sorry to be a bit negative but the above would help in giving any further advice Wouldn't worry too much about the oil pump,not yet anyway.Beat me to it Phill you must have been up early

[MorrisGoa]

Thanks philthehill & kennatt for the replies.

The mechanic was ill & nothing much could be done for the past few days.

@philthehill

Was the engine oil changed after the two years of non running?

Yes, the oil was drained, kept dry without oil for about 8 months. Subsequently, the oil filter was replaced & fresh oil was poured in.

Have you changed the rocker shaft?

Nope. The car's engine was in perfect running condition & driven in to the workshop located 14Kms away. The Morris was always started maximum every second day & warmed up since its purchase. - (Until it reached this mechanic )

The mechanic had removed the rocker cover & cleaned the crud.

@kennatt

any good mechanic will have a oil pressure guage to fit to check it.

This one doesn't!!!

when hot ,take the oil filler cap off and see if there is any fumes being blown out of the cover

After cold start & running for 3 minutes, I opened & checked, there are white colour fumes rising. My mechanic tells me that it's normal.

Sorry to be a bit negative..

Well, it takes positive & a negative to light a bulb
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I think I'll put this thread on hold & attend to another problem. I think it's better to create a new thread for it, as it relates to the engine running rich with wet plugs.

[amgrave]

If the engine was left for that length of time with no oil in it the oil pump would need priming after filling with fresh oil and before first start up, in fact better to turn the engine over using the starter motor with the coil disconnected so the engine could not start.

[rocco]

Gents, I'm having a bit of trouble figuring out how to take the oil pump apart. There is only one visible screw in the body, I've taken it out but nothing has changed. It looks like there are headless screws holding it together. How does it come apart or is it just a case of buying a new one because they are so cheap?

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[philthehill]

To check the serviceability of the oil pump you need to know the oil pressure.
The headless screws are just dowels.
To split the pump undo the slotted screw and split the pump body to expose the rotor.
Clearance measurements between the moving parts and between the moving parts and body are given in the BMC workshop manual.
If the clearances are within the tolerances stated reassemble and fit to the engine block. Assemble the pump with engine oil or https://www.minispares.com/product/Clas ... |Back%20to
so as to aid priming.
To be honest I would fit a new pump.
https://www.minispares.com/product/Clas ... o%20search

[rocco]

Cheers Phil. I think a new oil pump is the best way to go, I was just interested to see what it looked like inside but with that single screw out, it doesn't separate. I think I'll give it a hammer then if it's just a bit stuck.

[philthehill]

To separate the body from the flange after removing the screw - hold the flange and gently tap the drive shaft. That should be enough to separate the two parts. Do it over a table/bench so the body does not get damaged when it comes apart.

[rocco]

The dowels were doing their best to hold it all together but the hammer persuaded them to let go.

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It looks badly scored to me, no doubt long oil changes to blame. Beautiful in it's simplicity.

[philthehill]

Best place for the oil pump shown above is the scrap bin.
One of the problems with modern pumps is that the impellor is held to the shaft by an interference fit. It has been known for the impellor to come loose on the shaft to the point that it is unable to generate oil pressure.
If you can find a NOS oil pump with a Woodruff key as per the old pump so much the better.
If you are wondering what the small hole is for in the flange - it is an oil bleed to the rear camshaft bearing for lubrication of the bearing. There is no oil gallery feeding oil to the rear camshaft bearing.