Front damper bolts broken

Post by **catsoup** » Mon Mar 08, 2004 9:25 am

Hi,

Anyone else had the front damper bolts shear off... or is it just me? I have now had this on both sides.

With the nearside I heard the bolt fall out, while driving.

I heard suspension rattle on the offside when going over bumps.

Both occurred within a year of each other, on a moggie I use daily.

The only way I managed to get the broken bolts out was to drill it out, and re-tap the hole. On both sides two of the four bolts had sheared.

Maybe we are occasionally supposed to check the torque, but there are knock overs on the bolts.

There is no access to the captive plate that the bolts screw into. Although there is a tiny aparture below, but replacing the plate would involve guts and an angle grinder.

Chris.

Post by **rayofleamington** » Mon Mar 08, 2004 10:34 am

That doesn't sound nice! I heard somone say that using a thick oil in the damper could cause the bolts to shear, but if the remaining 2 bolts didn't break I don't belive that would be the problem.
Do you have any modifications? (disk brakes, hard poly bushes etc..). That could cause extra stresing but I've never heard of any problem like that.

There must be a reason, because if it was a complete one off, it would not have happened to both!
My first guess would be that the shocks had been refitted using the old bolts and they were overtorqued which weakened them, so they failed with the additional cyclic loading from the suspension movement. Probably best to replace the remaining bolts as well!

To remove sheared bolts I have Mig welded onto the sheared face to make a proud lump (taking care not to weld the bolt into the hole!) then welded on another bolt with a hex head to enable unscrewing.
The heating and cooling probably helps as this has always been successful.
And it's at times like that you are glad to have a mig welder not gas

Post by **newagetraveller** » Mon Mar 08, 2004 10:41 am

As Ray says, the bolts may have sheared because they have been done up too tightly.
If you have not done so already I would check that the other bolts are not too tight as well.

Post by **catsoup** » Mon Mar 08, 2004 12:18 pm

I have had the car for the past 12 years, and it has had no modifications.

The dampers (front or back) had not been disturbed in that time, and had the original bolts.

Its possible that someone bodged the job >12 years ago, but if my bodge jobs last that long I will be happy

I can only assume its my driving style! ;)

Maybe I can blame the council for too many pot holes/sleeping policemen in my area?

Post by **Kevin** » Mon Mar 08, 2004 1:48 pm

I have head of the bolts breaking but only when the oil was replaced by grease and this from an overseas owner.
As you use the car on a daily basis how have the shockers managed to last so long are they still Ok, have you taken them off to check the action`s and that there is not excessive wear in any direction, how many miles have you done in the car ?

Post by **Alec** » Mon Mar 08, 2004 4:04 pm

Hello all,

OK Ray, I'll bite;-

"And it's at times like that you are glad to have a mig welder not gas",

If I had to weld, I would use my MMA, easier to see what you are welding to as there is no bulky shroud obscuring the view. I would, however, prefer to use an extractor to remove the sheared portion.

Cheers,

Alec

Post by **rayofleamington** » Mon Mar 08, 2004 4:58 pm

interesting point Alec.
For the 'shroud' obscuring the field of view - normally you can get the torch over at an angle and your head round to an opposing angle so you can see whats going on, but there are some awkward spots around the bodywork where it takes guesswork (wouldn't use guesswork on a broken stud unless it sticks out at least 5mm!)
I have used the stud-removal method on a few occasions and I thoroughly recommend it! The smallest one was for the water valve at the back of the head - the hex screw had sheared just below the level of the head, so one decent weld to extend it 'proud' then another weld to attach something to it.
Mig has it's dissadvantages, but it's spot on for other things.

I used mine a few weeks ago to remove some locking wheel nuts (no key). Took nearly 30 mins to get all the tools out to the car but only 10 minutes to go round and tack 4 bits of hex onto the nuts - job done.
Has a similar effect on stuck brake cylinders - did that on a car which had been stood for 20+ years to get the pistons out - they all came free with a good twist.

Post by **Alec** » Mon Mar 08, 2004 6:02 pm

Hello Ray,

I'm not really anti MIG, just that they seem to be touted as a wonder tool and the only way, which they are patently not. I have seen some dreadful MIG welding done on some cars, but that's not the machines fault.

I've never tried that method of piston removal, worth remembering. My usual method on really tight slave cylinders is to fit a grease nipple and pump them out with a grease gun.

The reason I believe that the grease method also works for spigot bushes in the crank is that the grease is so viscous that it seals the realatively large clearances and that the bushes are not that tight in the first place.

Alec

Post by **rayofleamington** » Mon Mar 08, 2004 6:26 pm

Alec,
That's fine - I know they're not a wonder tool but not everyone knows how versatile they can be. I've also seen some awful welding domne by Migs - You should have seem what I did to my 62 4 door back in 1991

(I thought it was a good car to learn on..)
I tried pressure on the cylinders but to no avail - I used a spare MC in a Vice as hard as I could, but at a very high pressue a small jet as thin as a human hair squirted a line on the ceiling

they were well and truly stuck, but rotating them quickly freed them (after they let off with a loud crack, they needed a few full turns before they could be twisted out).
So have you used the grease method in the spigot bush?

Post by **salty_monk** » Mon Mar 08, 2004 6:35 pm

I used mine a few weeks ago to remove some locking wheel nuts (no key).

Cheap 17mm (usually) socket, a big hammer & a socket wrench.

Need I say more?? The socket will be scrap after a few but it'll save your unloading time!!

Post by **rayofleamington** » Mon Mar 08, 2004 6:50 pm

they were just over 20mm, deliberately so that you couldn't fit a socket between them and the pocket in the new Ford alloy wheel.
It was all above board in case anyone was wondering

The large motor company who owned the car couldn't find the key and wouldn't loan the master key.

Fortunately the one's on my Porsche have a slip ring round the outside to prevent that kind of method

Post by **Alec** » Mon Mar 08, 2004 7:03 pm

Hello Ray,

Yes, and successfully, you may have missed my post but what my point at the time was that I use a universal clutch alignment tool as the piston. Obviously getting the correct diameter is important and what better than something designed to fit the bush. I am more fortunate than most in having a lathe at home so I could turn up a drift, but why bother if the ideal device is to hand.

Alec

Post by **Willie** » Mon Mar 08, 2004 7:37 pm

CATSOUP.I would suggest that your bolts probably sheared because they
were too LOOSE not too tight. If there was looseness it would
allow the damper to move on every deflection of the suspension
so stressing the bolts?? Each time I have bothered to check
mine I have managed to tighten them slightly.

Post by **rayofleamington** » Mon Mar 08, 2004 7:45 pm

Willie,
Very wise as always!

Post by **_h_____** » Mon Mar 08, 2004 9:24 pm

Ray, the slip ring on your porsche takes 30secs with a dremel, ask me how I know! Move back on to the usual locking wheel nuts now. Security by obscurity i.e. who carries a socket like that. The trouble with locking wheel nuts is as they spin around so much all the grease leaves the lock and they jam, unless you keep them lubricated frequently.

Post by **Matt** » Mon Mar 08, 2004 9:34 pm

because youve stollen rays wheels?

Post by **_h_____** » Mon Mar 08, 2004 9:36 pm

.....perhaps?.....or maybe because I have had to cut some off my own car

Post by **Kevin** » Tue Mar 09, 2004 9:56 am

the slip ring on your porsche takes 30secs with a dremel

Hmmm Porker owner from H-----den removes Rays slip ring in 30 secs.
`H` your local show is on the 28th July this year but by ticket only if going in a car (£2:00)

Post by **rayofleamington** » Tue Mar 09, 2004 10:07 am

nah - takes more than 30 secs

the slip rings are hardened, so that adds extra time, then you still have to bodge something to grip the o/d - not worth the effort.
The proffessionals probably have a master key for the special 3 prong tool!

and the kids would not bother as the 265/35/18 wouldn't fit their cars anyway... they'd just walk further along the steet until they found alloys with no locks.

Post by **Kevin** » Tue Mar 09, 2004 11:56 am

nah - takes more than 30 secs

You havent seen triple `H` in action

Morris Minor Owners Club

Front damper bolts broken

Front damper bolts broken

shearing