Haynes Morris Minor 1000 distributor drive angle wrong

Post by **MikeTrav68** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 1:19 am

If you a rebuilding a 1098 engine, the Morris haynes manual says insert the distributor drive vertical with the small offset to the front of the engine and it rotates to the 11 o/c position.

This was not how my engine, believed to be standard, was timed. It conformed to the Haynes and BL manuals for 1098 Mini engines. The larger section of the drive is uppermost and the centre is at 1o/c when inserted, and rotates to a final position of 11o/c, with the drive slot in-line with the two mounting holes of the distributor mounting piece.

The effect of incorrect insertion is that the distributor cannot be rotated to give the correct ignition timing within the confines of the adjustment slots of the two winged mounting bolts. You could correct this by loosening the distributor shaft clamp bolt, but then the ht leads will be out of the usual routing. The important check is the static ignition timing before you try to start your rebuild engine.

Post by **rayofleamington** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 11:57 am

If you don't want to move the dizzy in the clamp bolt then you have to make sure you get the drive shaft exactly where it was.
It is usual in engine plants for a tolereance of plus/minus 1 tooth to be allowed. This even applies to CAM belts in service on modern engines.
Therefore your engine may have left the factory like that, but be slightly different to another factory engine. However if unless you owned the car from new it is hard to say.

I found an error in the Haynes manual about 15 years ago.
From memory they specify that the engine should be at TDC (or was it BDC??). In the specified position the bottom of one of the piston fouls the dizzy drive so you can't even insert it. Therefore you have to rotate the engine and then put the drive in.
Then when the engine is back at TDC you can check the position of the slot in the end of the drive. At this point you can pull the dizzy drive far enough out to adjust the position to where you want it (I set mine to the Haynes manual). Then using the clamp bolt, the dizzy orientation looked perfectly correct.

Where you MUST be careful is not to mix up the opening and closing of the points. It is easy to mix up as the Dizzy is in a completely different position after moving the drive shaft (or in the wrong position if the previous owner had put the drive shaft in wrongly aligned).
The Minor engine will run almost as normal with the timing heavily retarded so the first time you notice is when you overheat!!!

I've had various combinations of wrong drive shaft and/or wrongly set timing on cars that I have bought, so it seems people regularly get confused. One Midget engine I used had the position of the drive shaft incortect so that the dizzy was about 30° rotated and had made it nearly impossible to set the timing correctly - that had caused me no end of problems until I moved the drive shaft.

Post by **MikeTrav68** » Sat Jan 24, 2004 12:23 am

Quite agree Ray. When I removed the dizzy I used the twin wing bracket so the clamp bolt was untouched. It was comfirmation of the Mini Haynes view rather than the Morris Haynes view. I also had the TDC problem you mention - the bottom of the piston skirt protrudes below the bore and gets in the way of inserting the dizzy drive shaft straight. It has to dip down past the piston before lifting it up straight again for insertion. If I hadn't tried it with the sump off I might have sworn at Haynes for hours.

I've only ever seen one engine run better one tooth out - and this was crank sensor - Ford Puma Diesel. Better torque with 5 deg advance, but it didn't meet emissions hence the Ford spec. One tooth out is normally about 15 degrees crank and I can't recommend that. I'd expect serious loss of torque.

The attention to detail Ray talks about makes the difference in two areas: 1) the home rebuild takes much longer than the garage; 2) it works 'out of the box'. Put it together dry (trial build, no gaskets/seals) and check it. I think it's essential.

Post by **Benjy** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 12:36 pm

My HT leads used to be stretched because the dizzy drive was out. I followed the Haynes Minor 1000 manual to the letter and it all worked a treat, engine at TDC. No1 plug is now connected to the nearest (top right viewed head on) connector of the dizzy cap.

Can't say I've ever checked my valve timing though...

Ben

Post by **brixtonmorris** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 9:55 am

whos droped the dist drive in the sump while refitting. ive done it on a engine in car ready to go home that evening.

Post by **Scott** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 2:29 am

Mark,
There are certain things that you don't admit to & that is one of them

.
I hope you're not chasing any work from this board!!!

Post by **Benjy** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 9:08 am

I came close! Dropped it slightly as it was going in and got it jammed at the wrong angle. Thought I'd have to take the (full) sump off the retrieve it, but in the end a little wiggling and perseverance saved the day.

Post by **brixtonmorris** » Wed Feb 04, 2004 10:48 am

no chance of you getting any, you must be still getting over the rugby.
i wondnt bring my car to you if you cant admit to your mistakes.
well done Benjy, experince is the spice of life.
gravity must be different down there,
e=mc2 scott
i

Post by **Scott** » Wed Feb 04, 2004 11:37 pm

Mark,
Only joking about your mistake.
If I had to admit to my mistakes, it would be the longest post ever.
At least when you make mistakes, you instantly become "experienced".

Rugby?..... when was that on?:D
I prefer cricket myself. Now what was the last result...............

Post by **brixtonmorris** » Thu Feb 05, 2004 11:27 am

great, when i visit aus, ill come and see you . with my surf board.
see ya scott

Post by **brixtonmorris** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 10:20 am

no ones picked up that its very difficult to drop the drive in the sump because the crank should be in the way. except Benjy

Post by **brixtonmorris** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 10:46 am

espically scott

Post by **Scott** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 2:23 am

Is this a bait?
Am I supposed to say something here?

Post by **Kevin** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 1:27 pm

Not sure Scott it might be something to likeing games that involve twigs and balls athough the accompanying beer drinking is ok.

Post by **MikeTrav68** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 10:52 pm

I have the distributor puzzle sussed. It's to do with the distributor cap. P20 of the Haynes manuaul (sky blue 56-71) shows a distributor cap with the #1 plug lead heading from the bottom left corner. The leads exit opposite from the spade terminal connection. This cap suits the Haynes Morris description, put the drive slot in vertically.

My cap has the leads exiting at 90deg from the spade terminal connection, heading towards the spark plugs. The leads are shorter. This cap suits the Haynes Mini description, drive slot at 20deg, large segment up.

If you have a cap with plug in leads, then you can rotate them and either drive position can be made to work. Just check before you crank!