It's all going a bit wrong!

Post by **markthe45king** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 4:20 pm

having now resolved locks and headlights, LilyB this morning decided she had no intention of starting. On previous non starting moments a sneaky tap to the fuel pump has worked, though not today.

Basically, turn the key and you are greeted with a massive sound of nothing. Pull out choke and repeat and you are greeted with a squirty / hissy sound but nothing else. Cranking her was greeted with a total jarring of the crank handle and nothing else, and the key was also clicking straight back after turning if this has any significance at all.

She was fine 8 hours previously!

As i am of a non mechanical bent (20 minutes to change the headlamp!) all i can think of after reading the manual is:

battery
distributor
fuel pump
starter motor

any other brilliant ideas? oh and ideally anyone know a minor garage nearer to surbiton than kent? Or can i just get a normal garage to make her work again if / when i can't?

Post by **cormorant** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 4:29 pm

Check battery leads ok to solenoid and starter motor first if you are getting nothing. Earth lead ok to body? All leads tight? Battery ok? Lights work? Ignition light come on?
Try this first before going further....if the whole lot is dead then no point thinking about the fuel pump/distributor just yet

Post by **ssnjimb** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 4:39 pm

The distributor and fuel pump will not cause the engine to not turn over.

As cormorant has said check the earth points un do them and wiggle them around then do them up again. When checking the tightness of the power leads to the started solenoid always disconnect the batter positive terminal it gives one hell of a jump if you dont.

Try the starter handle again. There is a special technique that stops wrists etc being broken. Bring it round to the compression stroke and then pull down sharply whilst letting go. if it fires then thats a start.

Jamie

Post by **markthe45king** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 5:25 pm

headlights come on which i assume discounts the battery and the ignition light comes on too.

the crank seems to bite back really hard - almost jamming on the half turn

Sun Oct 04, 2009 6:02 pm

when you turn the key to start the car, do the lights die?

if yes it might mean your battery is not connected as well as it might be.. you have a good enough conneciton for one or two bits and pieces but the full power for the engine is not available.. the number of times i have had to retighten the earth is well lets say a lot..

Post by **bmcecosse** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 7:27 pm

Sounds to me that the starter has 'jammed in' - turn the little square on the end of the starter to release it. Or - try rocking the car - in gear/handbrake off/Ignition OFF !

Post by **8009STEVE** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:58 am

I would go for connections, especially the engine to body. I have come across earthing through the choke cable before

Post by **bmcecosse** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:03 am

It's not clear to me - is the engine turning at all - or is there just a 'click' when the key is turned ? If the engine is 'kicking back' against the starter (or the handle) then the ignition timing is too far advanced.

Post by **ssnjimb** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:59 am

I suggest the engine is turned to the correct timing mark on the timing pointer by hand then a static change of the timing is fulfilled.

As well as bmc's suggestion of turning the peg on the end of the starter with a adjustable spanner.

Jamie

Post by **markthe45king** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 11:25 am

to clarify - all she is managing is the key clicking.

The last similar occurrence was the engine dying which was resolved by the AA man hitting the fuel pump.

Visually the battery looked ok, and the lights came on - i will now check to see if the lights dim if the key is turned and do a closer check on the connections. I can't think of anything obvious that would have drained the battery overnight.

I will then get my manual out and see where the starter is and how easily unjamming the end is.

alternatively i'll just ring AA homestart and use up one of my goes.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 11:28 am

The starter is low down at the back - left hand side as you stand looking at the engine with the bonnet up. But - if you have homestart (are you sure it covers old cars - some don't!) may as well use it! Just don't let them sell you a battery at a ridiculous price!

Post by **ssnjimb** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 12:09 pm

Is the battery fully charged. Maybe charge it up then see what happens. Can you borrow a battery from another car to check its not the battery.

Jamie

Post by **mike.perry** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 12:37 pm

Don't remove a battery from a modern car or you will screw up all the electrics and lose the security codes

Post by **ssnjimb** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 12:57 pm

screw up the electrics ? i know about the radio code but i didnt know it would screw the electrics up.

jamie

Post by **bmcecosse** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 3:24 pm

Just use jump leads!

Post by **cormorant** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 7:11 pm

I would have a go yourself first before calling them out - the Minor is a simple car and you will feel good when you find and fix the problem!

Key clicking - tiny little click or big clack from under the bonnet?

Post by **tingo** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 8:23 am

Did you hit a big bump on your last journey? When I first had my car I drove through a big pothole and had the same problem with not starting the next day.
Solved it by following the electric leads from the battery and on round the system, tightening all the connections. One of them had come loose.

Post by **MarkyB** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 8:34 am

The hissing noise when you pull the choke out is the starter motor trying to earth itself through the choke cable.
This is because there is no good earth path from the engine to the body.
Try a jump lead from the battery earth direct to the engine.
If this sorts it the diagnosis is as above.

Post by **markthe45king** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:22 am

well, it appears the battery may be dead - jumped her, drove around a bit on ever brightening lights as the battery charged. Stopped, tried to start again - dead as a dead thing again.

So i just change the battery right?

What about the reverse earthing? Does that mean i put the battery in the other way round? I know - i am very dumb - but she is my first car!

Post by **ssnjimb** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:48 am

Reverse earthing ? Leave the battery the way it is now.

The earth strap connects to the side of the battery box next to the fuel pump what symbol is on the battery on the earth side.

Give the battery a good overnight charge and see where you stand.

If nothing happens then you "might" need a new battery but we must make sure you make certain all the earthing points are clean and connected up.

Jamie