Gearbox not happy

Post by **Lukey** » Fri Aug 29, 2008 7:35 pm

I've been driving the moggie properly for two days now and I've come across a few faults I would like a second opinion on.

When I go to engage 1st gear or reverse the gearbox will make a rather loud noise, it's not a crunch it's like a metallic whack. It doesn’t do this if I select third gear, then second gear. Is this actually a problem or part of the gearboxes character? I am aware there are no syncros of these gears but this is starting off from a complete standstill.

When you begin to move off you're the car begins to judder violently, the more the clutch bites the more violent it gets but as soon as the gear is engaged it stops completely. I've found the engine steady bar is broken and the engine mounts are cracked and soft. It seems like I've found my problem, although my friends is convinced there's oil on the clutch so from my description does it sound as if I also have oil on my clutch?

I've found part of the steady bar snapped loose leaning on the bulk head. I have no idea where it was previously attached to. Would somebody show post a picture up of a decent attached one?

Lastly, the gearbox likes to jump out of second. I did just think syncro wear but it seems slightly different. It jumps out most frequently as I'm negotiating a junction. I'll approach in third, put it in to second, mach the revs it stays in no problem, lift off use the engine breaking it stays in gear still. It's always as I'm crawling along about to put my foot down in second to go across the junction it will pop out. It stays in gear downhill and going up hill so I'm not entirely convinced its syncro. My friend commented as said he thinks it's the selector forks?

Thank you in advance.

Post by **PSL184** » Fri Aug 29, 2008 8:30 pm

1st and reverse crunch is normal because of the lack of synchro. For 1st gear, try going into 2nd gear first then into 1st, if you see what I mean as this helps to line up the shafts.
Clutch judder is also an inherant problem, hence the intrduction of the steady bar. You could also have oil on the clutch plate from a leaky rear main or oil pump. Try "burning" the clutch a bit to see if it improves. Second gear (and third gear) pop out is also common - Its time for a recon box....
Pic of my steady bar attached though its not standard - but it works...<br>

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Post by **Sidney'61** » Fri Aug 29, 2008 8:47 pm

I think the normal original steady bar bolts to a bracket just underneath the battery compartment, i'll try and find a pic...

Post by **Sidney'61** » Fri Aug 29, 2008 8:53 pm

Theres mine, you can just about see where the steady bar is<br>

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Post by **Kevin** » Fri Aug 29, 2008 11:16 pm

Pic of my steady bar attached though its not standard - but it works...

Thats one of Mr Grumpys (no longer in business) replacement ones.
Lukey you really need to get the engine steady sorted as soon as possible, that amount of juddering will not do the transmission any good, also if you have plenty of clutch bit its unlikely to have oil on it.
There should also be gearbox steady cable fitted which only just needs to be nipped up, check this is not broken as well.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Sat Aug 30, 2008 10:22 am

Slipping out of second like that is absolutely typical of first stage gearbox wear. Learn to go round those corners in 3rd gear instead! It is syncro wear on the little teeth on both the second gear and the first/second selector hub. The parts are expensive - you should start looking for a 'know good' second hand gearbox.
For the judder - as the lads have said above - fix the steady, or make a copy of the one shown (it looks good!) - and renew the engine mounts - and also have a look at the gearbox mounts, they may be broken. Once all that's fixed - put it in 4th gear, rev up hard and lift your foot off the clutch. It should stall almost immediately - if it keeps running (with smoke and smell !) - then yes the clutch is contaminated with oil and will need renewing - along with cure for the oil leak!

Post by **Lukey** » Sat Aug 30, 2008 10:42 am

Superb answers, thank you all. The minor did come with a gearbox in the boot, condition unknown. Is it worth just swapping them over and seing what happens?

Post by **bmcecosse** » Sat Aug 30, 2008 10:52 am

Well - I would have a look inside it - take the side plate off, just watch for the two little springs and put them back where they came from. Study the gear teeth etc --and try to assess how much 'swarf' has collected in the bottom of the box. Post up a picture(s) taken through that side plate if you can.
Just a thought - is the spare box smooth on the outside or does it have little ribs on the syrface. Smooth is 948, ribs is 1098 and a much better box.

Post by **Lukey** » Sat Aug 30, 2008 12:07 pm

Ok taken the side cover off; the gearbox looks good to me.

What do you think? The gearbox is ribbed.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Sat Aug 30, 2008 12:30 pm

Yes - that looks pretty good. The little 'dog' teeth on all these gears look not too bad - I would give it a go! There is some wear - and I can't tell you for sure it will be ok, but well worth a gamble. Just check the screws and locknuts on the selector forks are nice and tight before you close it up.
BTW - Great pictures!

Post by **Lukey** » Sat Aug 30, 2008 1:27 pm

Thanks, one last question the whole gearbox including the inside of the bell housing is covered in oil. Should I clean and degreace the whole inside of the bell housing then prefill with oil to check to see if it is leaking?

Post by **bmcecosse** » Sat Aug 30, 2008 3:16 pm

Clean yes - pre-fill no - it will just run out the tail-housing! If doing the change (and I assume the one in the car is also 'ribbed' ?) check the condition of the carbon thrust clutch release bearing and make sure there is a good thickness of carbon showing. Note - it is engine oil in these boxes - NOT EP 80/90. Use 10W40 for best economy (least drag) or 20W50 if it's a bit noisy.

Post by **minor_hickup** » Sat Aug 30, 2008 4:41 pm

BTW if you're missing your engine steady its probably because it has broken off its mount. The grumpy's kit is still available in a revised form from ESM.

Post by **MoggyTech** » Sat Aug 30, 2008 5:35 pm

The syncro rings in those pictures look well worn to me, and the small shavings near the drain plug definitely look like bits of teeth edges.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Sun Aug 31, 2008 5:22 am

Well - you can't actually see the syncro rings - they are inside the selector hubs - and yes there is a little wear on the dog teeth of second gear (left side of pic) - but compare with 4th gear (right side and which never really wears) and they are not too bad. I've certainly seen very much worse!

Post by **XDB** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 10:00 pm

might I humbly suggest that you check the condition of the teeth on the reverse and first gears, they have a hard life, some of those chips may be off them

Post by **bmcecosse** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 11:11 pm

Indeed - worth looking at - all these gearboxes lose a few shreds of steel from time to time! If you want a 'perfect' box be prepared to pay - lots! This is a 'free' box - so unless first gear looks terrible - I would take a punt on it going by what's on show in these pics.