Indicators won't work on offside & fuel pump problems.

[DaveBarry]

My 1968 Morris Minor had recently undergone a major £5000 restoration before I bought it, but it has been plagued by so many annoying problems that I feel like getting rid of it and buying something reliable like a Ford !

To be fair I've managed to fix most things but I'm stuck on this electrical one:

The indicators work on the nearside but are completely dead on the offside, both back and front. The green lamp on the stalk does not function at all on the offside but is fine on the nearside! The indicator cylinder unit is obviously OK, and the bulbs are fine. I can't use the car without offside indicators..........any ideas?

Another electrcal problem is half fixed !

The car will start from cold and run for a few seconds, then stops and will not start again. I tried tapping the fuel pump and sometimes this works. If not I have to disconnect the fuel pipe at the carburettor, then tap the pump until it starts to click and then pumps fuel. Then I reconnect the fuel pipe and drive away ! It will run all day but I have to repeat the procedure next morning, and to be honest I'm getting bored with it ! The pump looks to be a recent item.

Any help would be gratefully received !

DaveBarry

[MoggyTech]

Indicator fault sounds like the actual stalk assembly, but changing the flasher unit first is always worth a try.

Fuel pump fault is a bit more complex. Could be a partialy blocked fuel filter in the tank, or debris in the main fuel line from tank to pump. A poor flow rate from cold with line to carb disconnected and ignition on would confirm that. After that it's pump points dirty or diaphram throw over point not adjusted correctly. Both easy to fix.

[Orkney]

As what MT said - the indicator stalk could be the culprit - theres a very fine little mechnism in there with springs and little cams and all sorts that make it work.
Ive got a brand new one on but its still not adjusted correctly for the self cancelling.
big socket, steering wheel off then the shroud held on by screws will reveal whats inside - from that you'll certainly be able to see if anyhtings missing or not making contact.

Fuel pump - at a guess the points. Not my favourite job and someone better in the knwo will explain you through that one. Quick thought though, have you taken out the little filter in the fuel pump and given it a clean? Might just be a build up of some sort that sludges up from cold? Worth a look before you start on the points.

[Nadir]

I'd be checking the earths and connectors (inc under the glove box) first

[bmcecosse]

To check the indicator switch - take the wires off and short them out thus bypassing the switch - do they work now ? If not - then start looking for a loose connection in the wiring to/from the switch. If it flashes on one side - then it's not the 'flasher' unit.
As for the pump - does sound like the points need adjusting - read all about it in the manual - or just try another pump.
For interest - where was the £5k restoration carried out ?

[Kevin]

The pump looks to be a recent item.

I hope its a genuine SU and not one of the horrible unreliable units with the blue plastic around it.

[RogerRust]

Sounds like a loose bellet connector. Follow the braided loom from the indicator stalk and check that they are all tight. similarly the fuel pump sounds like a loose connector. You can test this by carefully connecting a wire direct from the live side of the battery to the fuel pump terminal and see if it ticks over. If it does its a problem with the wiring.

[DaveBarry]

Hi Moggers !

Many thanks indeed to all who took the trouble to answer my problems with my indicators and fuel pump! The indicator problem was, as many suggested, caused by the stalk assembly. Having removed the steering wheel and the stalk shroud you are confronted by a mass of little bits of white plastic held together with flimsy bits of brass and copper......what a nightmare, and typical of the rubbish that Lucas churned out at the time! Why on earth couldn't they make it out of bakelite and steel......I already know the answer....plastic is cheaper! I got the thing to work by prising the parts with a screwdriver until a decent contact was made.

Does anyone know of a substitute stalk that is more heavy duty....perhaps from an earlier Minor, or from some other vehicle? Mine is sure to go wrong again, and I guarantee it will be a cold dark wet night the next time my indicators pack up! Alternatively where is the best place to buy a new stalk ?

My fuel pump is behaving itself at the moment....thankfully it's the correct type, which I will treat to a set of new points and cleaning of the filter as soon as my fingers thaw out enough to wield a spanner!

My Minor has had a full body and chassis rebuild and came with a large file of photos and receipts. Basically it has a 1300cc Marina block, Marina suspension, power assisted brakes and a brand new black interior including high back seats. Body is Almond Green two-pack paint.
I first became involved with Morris Minors in 1968 when I took a job as a driver for MacFisheries Ltd, and was presented with a brand new van, registered NHO 721F. THey were darkish blue with white wavy lines on the sides.......do any still exist?

Regards

Dave

[Orkney]

I bought a new old stock one on fleabay for about £55 IIRC and some people said i paid too much but it was a good investment, no more forgetting the indicator was going.
Was going to give the old one to someone on here for spares but inadvertantly ran it over backing the car out of the garage
Theres a lot of work in them so didnt begrudge teh cost - well not too much !

[MoggyTech]

http://morrisminorspares.co.uk/shop/pro ... ee5f08043f

Above link is for original type, not exactly cheap, but still available

[Matt]

Dave... I have a few used spare stalks if you need one... I go through Haywards Heath all the time....

[Alec]

Hello Dave,

to me Lucas gets a lot of unwarranted flak, it's rather unfair to criticise some thing that is so old, and also bear in mind that Lucas produced what the manufacturers were prepared to pay, i.e. built to a price.

I have no connection with them but get used to American forums slagging off Lucas, but to get it on a British forum!!

Alec

[Nadir]

Agreed. The stalk is a lovely bit of engineering - and I really don't think Bakelite would have been better, quite the opposite, in fact.

[bmcecosse]

Aye - Bakelite (the FIRST synthetic plastic!) soon goes v brittle. My car's indicator stalk is 41 years old - and still working well. Just needs a bit of care when working with the column/covers etc.
And I would rather have Lucas than Bosch etc any day!!

[DaveBarry]

Hello Alec & Nadir

Thanks for your interesting responses. I've spent the last 34 years in Australia and I can assure you that Lucas products are regarded very poorly there as well ! The same is true in New Zealand but to a lesser extent as they are more pro-British ! The trouble is when you are used to the incredible reliability of American or German electrical products( or any product for that matter) from makers such as Bosch or AC Delco, then you do tend to get rather frustrated by inferior products from elsewhere. You might well be correct that Lucas built things down to a price in some instances, but please consider the case of the Ford Motor Company in the early 1960's. British Fords had Lucas electrics right through until the early 1960's, when the Mk.1 Cortina became generally referred to as the "Dagenham Dustbin ". You may well be a lot younger than me, and possibly don't realise what actually happened in those far off days; the early Cortinas had Lucas starter motors which had the unfortunate habit of sounding like a bag of bolts before they disintegrated and mangled up the flywheels ! Hence the name "Dustbin" which sounded like it was full of bolts ! Within a year or two Fords began fitting their own electrical systems under the name Motorcraft, such was their frustration with Lucas!

Another example was the Triumph 2.5PI, a damn good car except for the notoriously unreliable Lucas Petrol Injection system! The entire range was infected with the "unreliable" tag, just because, in many cases, Lucas quality control was at fault and spares were not available.

I think it's fair to say that Lucas is generally denigrated just about everywhere except in the UK ; I have a Lucas pin badge bought at a swapmeet in Los Angeles, and featuring the familiar lion holding the flaming torch. If you read the very small letters around the circumference it doesn't say "Lucas - king of the road" but "Lucas- prince of darkness!"
Going out in the rain, in a car fitted with a Lucas wiper motor, is regarded in the U.S or Canada as daring to the point of foolhardiness !

There is also the famous Aussie joke :

"Why do the Poms drink warm beer?"
"Because they all own Lucas refridgerators!"

Oi, Oi !

[Orkney]

"Why do the Poms drink warm beer?"
"Because they all own Lucas refridgerators!"

Well tell them to stop trying to export that crappy fosters over here then

[Nadir]

The prince of darkness gag is a very old one here too Not saying that I'm a huge Lucas fan, just that the indicator arm seems to me to be a well put together thing - I'm sure everyone else did them better though...

[bmcecosse]

And charged twice as much!

[Pyoor_Kate]

Lucas I'm sure did build to a price, and as it goes, I've never really had any huge problems with my indicators. But the Lucas electrics in my minor gave me no end of grief until I spent hours getting them into new-ish condition. And my Viva nearly went up in smoke thanks to the Lucas lightswitch.

And don't get me started on the Lucas LRA alternators, I can rant about that for hours.

But to be fair to them, the Delco distributor in the Viva is a dire piece of *expleitive deleted*. Give me the minor's distributor any day. Oh and the East German electrics on my MZ were nothing to write home about; I actually replaced the alternator's control pack with a Lucas Equivalent part on my 125 and on my 251.

As a side point, ages ago I designed this teeshirt http://pyoor.org/photos/teeshirts/lucas.png) - after a particularly frustrating period of time with the Minor's Lucas Electrics... Sadly the teeshirt transfer paper I had was a bit past it, so it all flaked off. Somehow seemed fitting ;)

[DaveBarry]

"Why do the Poms drink warm beer?"
"Because they all own Lucas refridgerators!"

Well tell them to stop trying to export that crappy fosters over here then

Yes, you're right, that Fosters is awful stuff....just like fizzy sugar water !
Strangely, out in Australia hardly any of the locals drink it either because they reckon its too sweet; the biggest market for it is actually overseas tourists !