Smokey Rosie

Post by **pskipper** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 2:05 pm

Hi,

Those of you who went to the website rally will have seen quite how smokey Rosie is! Checking the Haynes manuals it seems I either need to replace the piston rings or the valve oil seals in the head. Does anyone have any other suggestions about what it might be and any hints or tips would be appreciated!

I've also noticed these

Part No: 10M187
Description:
Valve Stem Cup Seal (This is recommended replacement for valve stem'O'ring**)8 required**MORRIS MINOR PART** .

On the Bull Motif website, are they any better/easier to fit?

Thanks

Philip

Post by **Stig** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 2:20 pm

They are better (why else would the manufacturer spend more money on a part?) as long as they'll actually fit on the head / valve-guides you've got. I once tried fitting them on a Mini head and they popped off and got mangled by the valve springs. Not good for clear oilways!

Mind you, that head had double springs and even though there seemed to be enough clearance I guess there wasn't. And the guides were kinda sloppy too.

That's assuming they're the seals I'm thinking of, sadly they've still not got any pictures on Bull Motif's website. (c'mon guys, try to keep up!)

A compression test should show up piston rings, but sloppy valve guides might mean the valve doesn't seal properly. Hopefully new oil seals will fix the smoking though.

Post by **Willie** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 6:59 pm

Do a proper compression test and then squirt some oil into the bores, if the
readings improve considerably then it would suggest rings/bores wear. If there is no noticeable improvement then that points towards the need to grind
in the valves and possibly renew the valve guides and fit new valve oil seals
at the same time. You could also have a problem with the engine breathing
arrangements on your car???

Post by **bmcecosse** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 7:08 pm

Run the engine up to temperature - then at idle - take the oil filler cap off. If there is a plume of smoke - the bores have had it. Very unlikely that new rings will fix it for more than 5 minutes - you will almost certainly need a rebore and new oversize pistons. The valve stem idea is a straw that many grasp at when faced with a smokey engine. They are almost never the problem. I have used the top hat seals (only in inlet valve guides) on standard guides - but not tried with double springs - the car revs to over 6k with singles - why fit doubles ?

Post by **rayofleamington** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 9:23 pm

having seen the car, I'd guess that valve stem seals are not the problem - there looks way to much smoke for that.
Normally valve guides will give you a puff of smoke at start up and after engine braking. Yours seemed to smoke at all times.

Post by **Cam** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 9:36 pm

Not at all time. I was following Philip for quite a few miles and the smoke had cleared up completely save for a tiny (and I mean TINY) little puff every now and then when changing gear.

It was BAD on startup though. I thought: 'yike, we're going to have a casualty here! but it cleared right up.

Actually, I'd be tempted to stick another spare head on and see if it made the difference. I would have said it was rings due to the amount of smoke at first, but after following the car for a while maybe it's head related?

Post by **Pyoor_Kate** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 10:47 pm

Well, if it disappears it might well be the head. The head that came with my ital engine turned out to be thoroughy worn; the neighbours would often get an unpleasant coating of oil if they opened their door at the wrong time. It burned oil something chronic until it was warm, and then didn't seem *too* bad. Changed the head, and since she's been getting through very little oil (and now I've adjusted the carb a bit she seems to be getting through less petrol too

).

Post by **bigginger** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 10:56 pm

If you want a head to try on her, I've got a few here - it might work

Post by **Welung666** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 11:31 pm

I've got a couple of heads in Luton to... I'm down there the weekend if you need anything pickin' up

Lee

Post by **ericwork** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 8:30 am

As a test for worn valve guides then some form of engine braking ( as Ray said) is a good indication. I always test for it by driving down a long hill with the engine just holding the car to a reasonable speed without touching the throttle, (in a lower gear). Then when you get to the bottom, give the car a quick burst on the gas and look in the rear view mirror. If you get clouds of smoke then this is a most probably valve guides. What you are doing is creating a great deal of suck in the bores which draws oil down from the head through the valves.

Eric

Post by **pskipper** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 9:17 am

Thanks guys, I'll have to get hold of a compression gauge and run all the tests suggested! If it is the valves I'll be taking you up on that offer Andrew (thanks). Just out of interest would the bores/rings have an effect on power as she still managed 70mph easily on the M5 when we took a lost/round about route?

Post by **MikeNash** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 9:40 am

Pete,
Don't want to add to your woes, but when Rosie started up in front of me on the dockside, she seemed to emit far more water vapour than anyone else and more than I'd expect for a warm engine on a mild day. MikeN.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 1:13 pm

Is there a plume of smoke from the oil filler cap - it's a dead easy test ? The 'downhill and then boot it at the bottom' test also sucks up oil past the rings - the only reliable test is - if little or no smoke from oil filler cap AND just a small puff on start-up - then it could well be valve stem seals.

Post by **KirstMin** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 3:58 pm

Cam wrote:It was BAD on startup though. I thought: 'yike, we're going to have a casualty here! but it cleared right up.

Ermmmmm, that's not entirely true! I followed pskipper for 45 minutes, with my roof off on the way to the cheddar gourge. I had a headache by the end

Post by **pskipper** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 8:00 am

Sorry about that. A quick update, compression tested at 30psi

am taking the head off today for a visual inspection.

Post by **Dominic** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 10:26 am

I bet Rosie isn't / wasn't as smokey as a Peugeot I saw in Stockport yesterday... Clouds of white oil-smelling smoke. I thought the poor woman's car was on fire at first. As she pulled it off the road into a side turning, there was so much smoke that I couldn't even see the front of my bonnet when driving through it! Goodness knows what happened to cause that! I bet a new engine costs more than an A series does!

Post by **bmcecosse** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 1:25 pm

Probably filled petrol car with diesel - or vice-versa.