spray guns

Post by **FrankM83** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 5:27 pm

Hi all, I wish to do the paint job on my van myself so I need to buy a gun can anyone tell me on average how much do I need to spend to get a good gun? what brands to look for? and what to look for in the gun itself please?
Thanks

Post by **plastic_orange** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 7:11 pm

Check out Machine Mart catalogue or on line (£20 - £35). Best guns tend to be Devilbiss (£120 - £150 ish), but cheaper ones do the job so long as you keep them clean (same applies to them all really). I bought a cheap- ish gun about 10 years ago, and have been really pleased with results. I've not used it for about 9 months, so it will probably need a service before use. Make sure your compressor provides enough air - nothing more annoying than stopping waiting for pressure to build. There are different types of guns available now, plus ones for new paint systems so you will have to take advice based upon the media you are going to use.
Jonathon will be the best person to advise, but really if you're doing 2k or celly, a siphon style gun with a 1.4 or 1.8 nozzle would suffice.

Pete

Post by **iwsmithy** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 8:18 pm

I seem to remember Practical Classics magazine did a test on different Sprayguns a while back and a cheap gun from "Screwfix" gave superb results. May be worth trying to get a back copy of the mag or looking on screwfix.com to find it.

Post by **zippy500** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 8:44 pm

I remember practical classics done a review on theses all in one spray/compressors.

It came out top in the test.

I was thinking about 1 for my self as I dont have a compressor.

Intresting if anyone can give feedback on result ,it if anyone got one.

It was called the Spraymate.(and good ol ebay has them!!!)

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Paint-Spray-Syste ... dZViewItem

(have to cut and paste above, how to you make a click clickable?)

Post by **bigginger** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 8:55 pm

You just did

Post by **Packedup** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 9:16 pm

I've heard good things about the Apollo HVLP sprayers, and think if I ever have the money I'll go that route instead of a cheap compressor that probably won't run a gun very well.

There's loads of HVLP setups on Ebay, but they seem to be for tanning people, I don't know if they're also suitable for use with car paints or not.

Post by **plastic_orange** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 9:43 pm

Many years ago my mate had an apollo system. It worked well, if a bit slow, but the finish required loads of machine buffing to get a shine because it went on so dry (warm air produced by system).
My MM was sprayed with it and was a very good finish after the above work (celly), but I personally would much rather have a conventional system as you can run tools from it. I agree that there are a lot of small compressors out there that struggle, and it is really a matter of getting what you pay for. You could always get a second hand unit for a bit less. I paid £350 for a machine rated at 14 cubic feet per minute, and it is quite satisfactory for the occasional use I put it to - quite capable of spraying a car.
I did once through circumstances spray a mini with an 8 cu ft per minute compressor, and it worked hard the entire time - had to wait for it to catch up.
You will have to wait for opinions on systems to appear, as you don't want to buy the wrong equipment.

Pete

Post by **Onne** » Sat Apr 08, 2006 1:05 am

I keep having problems with my compressor. There is a lot of water and oil in the air, even though I have an inline filter.

I do let the water out every other week, and the oil is about the right level

Post by **bigginger** » Sat Apr 08, 2006 1:11 am

With most of them, you have to let the water out every day - sometimes even more often. You'll rust the tank out from inside if you don't - but do check the instructions if you have them

Post by **paul.kissick** » Sat Apr 08, 2006 9:44 am

i bought a gravity feed gun for £40 last year and the results out of it were brillant.One thing when spraying a lot of little coats, makes a better end finish. I would personally go for the 2k paint myself as it doesn't seem to need as much warm air to dry. Having sprayed a mates race bike in febuary the 2k dried without any cloudiness in the final coats.

Post by **Packedup** » Sat Apr 08, 2006 3:31 pm

But surely the drawback to 2k is the paint looks better, but your insides don't?

Post by **Onne** » Sat Apr 08, 2006 3:53 pm

so you have to invest in a good mask. I bought a mask for about £30,which has two renewable filters, and an approval for toxic fumes. You can't even smell the paint if you have the mask on!
I have got the North 5500-30M
somenthing like this one

Post by **Packedup** » Sat Apr 08, 2006 4:01 pm

Isn't it the case with 2k that you need a fully enclosed mask with an external air supply to be entirely safe? Iso-cyanates and all that.

Good old celly is what went on the cars originally, and in a lot of cases has lasted the life of the car...

Post by **Onne** » Sat Apr 08, 2006 4:28 pm

true, 2K needs breathing whatsits. Last time I used 2K, I did it outside

Post by **paul.kissick** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 9:30 pm

that was older 2k paint ,if it were extremely hazardous they wouldn't sell it to diy people like ourselves. Some older vehicles were painted with a lead based paint, again if you are working with this a good filter mask is a must. Cellulose paint is just as hazardous as any other paint plus it is harder to get a good solid shine of it unless u have a spray booth. I sprayed my mates bike with a filter mask just like the 1 metioned before inside my garage, i couldn't smell the paint at all.Thats two months ago now and i'm still goin. (2 pack)

Post by **Onne** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 9:32 pm

I bought it fresh of a merchant. Mind you, I have got a lot of contacts in the paint scene around here

Post by **chickenjohn** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 8:23 am

paul.kissick wrote:that was older 2k paint ,if it were extremely hazardous they wouldn't sell it to diy people like ourselves. Some older vehicles were painted with a lead based paint, again if you are working with this a good filter mask is a must. Cellulose paint is just as hazardous as any other paint plus it is harder to get a good solid shine of it unless u have a spray booth. I sprayed my mates bike with a filter mask just like the 1 metioned before inside my garage, i couldn't smell the paint at all.Thats two months ago now and i'm still goin. (2 pack)

Thats not quite true, Cellulose and the associated thinners are certainly harmful and flammable, but then so is petrol. 2K can and has killed enthusiasts who decided to spray their cars. You can get a very nice finish with cellulose paint. How much depends on preparation and flatting and polishing afterwards. Celly has the "right" look as its the original paint used on Morris Minors, 2k can often look "plasticky".

2k is shortly to be banned, celly, I believe will still be available for cars before 1973 as its thinners are actually less hazardous than petrol.

Plus with celly, you have a chance of doing localised repairs and blending the new paint in with existing cellulose paint. With 2k or water based you have to do the whole panel, pluss celly is easier to cut back and wet and dry and more forgiving for the amateur as you have several coats to apply and can get it right.

Post by **jonathon** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 10:09 pm

I'm afraid I have to disagree with John on the point of local repairs, cutting back, and paint application.
It is correct that most commercial body repair shops will only apply the minimum required paint to meet the insurers and manufacturers specification. When it comes to professional restoration there should be an upturn in the quality of the paintwork i.e more paint and a better quality paint.
Local repairs are easy to perform with 2K and there should be no problems with blending in a repair. Wet flatting 2K is also very easy and is the only method in achieving a top notch finish. A good accetable finish can be achieved however in a out of the gun fashion.
The number of coats required for a professional finish is by its very nature fewer in 2k, but in general we always apply 4 coats and cut back one to finish to a high degree. With cellulose you can often apply over 10 coats, depending on the required finish ,however paint thickness will be very similar between the two processes at these coverage levels.
As to the finish and suitability of 2k on classic cars I think the IMHO should be a prerequsite, as to dispel any mis information to fellow members

Post by **Onne** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 10:16 pm

and the plasticy is just in the colour?

Post by **jonathon** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 11:06 pm

The plasticy look that is refered too is the look you can get when the paint is fresh from the gun. As I say a lot of commercial repairers will let the car go out in this condition as it meets the insurance and manufacturers desired level of finish. If the paintwork is treated to a wet flat and polish this will loose this plasticy appearence. One must also remember that there is a lot of rose tinted spectacle opinion on this subject and a freshly painted cellulose job will look almost identical to a properly finished 2K application.