Front end rust woes

Discuss Bodywork problems here.
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johnm
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Front end rust woes

Post by johnm »

Well we bit the bullet and put Maggie in for two new front wings since they were beginning to go in usual places.

This isn't the first time we've done this since we've had the car for more than 20 years and it's Mrs Johnm's every day transport.

However when the nearside wing was removed it turns out that a certain well know Bath based specialist had taken a few shortcuts when this was done some years ago (about 10 I think). Wing had been tack welded in place instead of having the captive nuts and bolts properly fitted and no rust proofing had been done at all on the inner wing area :evil:

Consequently we're in for new flitch plates and inners and some A post and sill repairs as well as new wings :(
aupickup
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Post by aupickup »

and they are specialists, and are suposed to look after our interests

we live and learn

and sorry to hear that
minor_hickup
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Post by minor_hickup »

I had some repair work done recently and although a good job was done in general, there was o paint under the widscreen wiper motor turret or where the panel under the radiator is welded on.
SR
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Post by SR »

john ,what a disgrace, name and shame ,we need this info, good luck with the car mate ,any pics?
http://www.villagephotos.com/pubbrowse.asp?folder_id=1070767
aupickup
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Post by aupickup »

I KNOW WE HAVE BEEN THROUGH ALL THIS AND THE CLUB WILL NOT BACK THE MEMBERS ON THIS ISSUE, BUT IT IS OUR CLUB AND THESE TRADERS ADVERTISE IN OUR MAGAZINE


WHO FEELS ITS TIME THE CLUB STOOD UP TO ITS MEMBERS
bigginger
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Post by bigginger »

I think it's time they stood up FOR their members. Can anyone explain why they don't? I've never quite grasped that one. Loss of revenue for the magazine? To be honest, I don't care much - I'm a member for the website :D Oh, all right - some other things as well.
moggyminor16
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Post by moggyminor16 »

here here put the word out let us all know who it was
FB_IMG_1694290254471.jpg
Cam
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Post by Cam »

The MMOC is run by enthusiasts FOR enthusiasts which DOES of course mean looking after the member's best interests. Unfortunately this does not extend to policing all traders that can turn their hand to a Morris Minor.

If there is legal action against a company then the company will be publicly excluded from Minor Matters.

Unfortunately if you try and exclude companies advertising without them having a court order against them then you are getting into tricky legal territory and could end up in court, which I'm sure car club volunteers are not prepared to do and certainly not on a regular basis.

The advice we are given is to return to the offending company and demand that poor repair work is rectified. If they refuse (or do it unsatisfactorily) then take them to court. Hopefully then they will get a CCJ and can legally be excluded from the magazine.

Tricky in this case as the work is so old.

If you name and shame (even though in principle I agree with it) then you are opening the MMOC up for legal action (libel, loss of earnings, etc, etc.). If that happens and the website is seen by the club as a regular 'source' of legal problems then it's likely to be pulled and we will loose a valuable resource which I'm sure we don't want. It’s an unfortunate situation, but the law is an ass. :(

If you want to know who it was, then PM the individual concerned to find out.
aupickup
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Post by aupickup »

agreed it is a tricky one, but a matter that seems to pop up quite regular.

well i would not go to a moggie specialist to have work done , if there is all this trouble with them, well not all .

maybe try a body restorer that is recommended maybe the answer
Cam
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Post by Cam »

Yes, it's a tricky one and it DOES crop up more than we'd like, but I have mentioned it to the MMOC committee and spoke publicly about it at the last AGM in the interests of the members. :)
aupickup
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Post by aupickup »

not sure what the answer is really.
i suppose go on recomendations would be the answer.

i know of at least 3 people who have come foul of moggie specialists.
plastic_orange
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Post by plastic_orange »

We should perhaps give the traders a 'traffic light' system. Green for good, Amber for acceptable and Red for poor.
This would require a data base and people to be honest about the appraisal and a decision would have to be taken on the numbers of green/amber/red required to apply rating.

Ride magazine (motor cycles) apply a testing system to almost every category of accessory/ service/ dealer etc and have a reader survey once a year to see what is good, bad or indifferent, so any product etc getting a 'ride' best/good buy is worth having, and more importantly everone knows who to avoid. This certainly makes traders/manufacturers sit up and take notice - and most do improve.

A web user survey could be instigated here once a year with clearly defined areas to be rated. The results would be published on here, and traders would then have to take notice (if they wished to stay in business). This way there should be no liability on the Minor Club as it is individuals undertaking this survey, and applying the rating would allow folk at a glance to decide on where to spend their hard earned.

Pete
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v436/sinky_aps/4e634210.jpg[/img] [img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v436/sinky_aps/MorrisRain4.jpg[/img]
jonathon
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Post by jonathon »

I have to say that I'm all in favour of a system outlined by Pete. However we are missing the point here, as the club already holds this sort of information, but does not make it available, unless you specifically ask. The club is in a very difficult position as Cam outlines, as one, it does not wish to loose revenue, from maybe big hitters in the trade who by advertising in the magazine regulary with big ads add conciderably to the clubs finances. Smaller traders advertising infrequently with small adds would not really suffer from a ban. We do not advertise at all in the club magazine, for our own personal reasons, and our order books are full well into next year.
So would a ban be the answer, I personally feel it would only effect the big hitters, but from this posting it would appear that they are both still churning out sub standard work and don't really give two hoots, as the company name does their advertising for them.
We have been asked to present cases against three bad traders in the last two years, and I find it appauling as to how some companies act towards their customers, and deny all liability for shoddy work. As a trader 'Minor specialist' I take pride in offering a good job at a fair price, and reading the comments that you should avoid Minor specialists really saddens me. Most Minor specialists are doing the job, one as a business, but also because they love the cars on which they work, they are prepared to sink large ammounts of money on your behalf to keep parts available and costs down. This against a tide of owners who in the main still want top quality parts at bottom dollar prices. The case in point here is aptly shown in chrome products, where the quality is really desperately bad, but has been driven there by owners unwilling to pay the going fair price. The old addage is 'you get what you pay for'. This also tranfers into the service offered by minor specialists, if one shop will repaint your car for £500 and the other wants £3000 then you need to make the decision as to why the difference. Some on here will be crying rip off to the higher trader, others wondering why you complain about re appearing rust, micro blisters and poor finish from the £500 job.
So how should the traders be policed, the club has its hands tied, most traders know who the bad guy's are and would recommend only those who they themselves trust, Maybe if the club is involved ,then the current records kept by them could be made public in a booklet, but only when each case reported has been shown to be proven and any court action has been finalised. Would an independant forum be out of the question, say a 'minor drivers club' or the like where a disclaimer could be offered to remove any liability of those involved in running it.
But then how many traders read forum's, not many I'd say, I believe that I'm the only trader who takes a semi active roll on this forum, so maybe others should be approached.
The trouble I feel with a once a year declaration of 'poor traders' is that the compliers must be 100% accurate in making sure their information is correct, and not a malicious bit of slander from a disgruntled customer, they must also make sure that any legal action has been finalised before its inclusion into the figures. There should also need to be an appeal system in place. Whatever route is chosen there will no doubt be claims and counter claims, and calls of liable.
As a minor trader I suggest that anyone about to commission work, checks out the market place thoroughly first. Do not make the assumption that a specialist is good at all aspects of work, most of us specialise in different areas. Ask to see previous work and talk to other customers, ask on this forum, as geographically its very broadly based.
Rant over. Good luck




:D :wink:
Last edited by jonathon on Sun Mar 26, 2006 7:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Cam
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Post by Cam »

The big problem is legal threats and not specifically income from adverts. The club neither wants nor needs legal battles from traders. I think the best way to find out who's good and bad is through talking to people on here. Asking the question and then getting non-public PMs to reply. A grading system run by the club unfortunately could well result in legal action against the club for the usual loss of earnings, deformation of character, etc, etc from traders who just want to get the boot in. :(

There are only two traders posting on here at the moment, Jonathon being the main one. I have personally spent 4 figure sums with BOTH traders on here and can recommend both of them. There are other traders I have used in the past that I would NOT recommend though.

There are some traders that I would not touch with a barge pole (if I could get one nowadays! :lol: ), as I've been involved with club members who have been bitterly disappointed and are fighting legal battles to get shoddy work rectified. The trouble is that the 'good' traders seem to be in the minority and it's such a shame because it gives 'traders' in general a bad name and it is unfair.

I prefer to do all my own work, and there are not many people I would trust with my cars but I have to speak as I find and say that JLH and Morspeed are two I would trust. :D
bigginger
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Post by bigginger »

Seconded - one by experience, and t'other by trusted advice.
jonathon
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Post by jonathon »

Thankyou Cam,Andrew.
Is it not stated that we are responsible for our own comments on this forum and that the club does not hold any responsibility for them. I only ask because PM's by their nature only tell the individual concerned adout the good/bad traders, to get the message across there is a desperate need to go public. If a trader objects then it is for the advisor to sustanciate their grievence.

Cam
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Post by Cam »

Trouble is that 'disclaimers' are often meaningless in certain legal situations. I don't know which or how as I'm not a lawyer, but what I DO know is that the MMOC are not happy with potential libel being spread on their messageboard. It's a legal conversation that the MMOC would rather not have. I PERSONALLY would like to name and shame, but I understand why the club can't. :( I'd absolutely hate to loose this excellent resource that we have here that is a benifit to members and traders alike.
jonathon
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Post by jonathon »

Yes , I quite agree Cam, its just difficult to see how workable a fair recommendation scheme would be. :wink:

minor_hickup
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Post by minor_hickup »

How about if a message board was set up where traders could be named and shamed as well as praised? It could have no connection with the club but maybe a member would care to reccomend it often on here?
KirstMin
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Post by KirstMin »

I get a de'ja'vu feeling whenever this comes up :D

Going back to the original post, I think that naming and shaming - in this case - is not a great idea because the work is 10 years old and perhaps the company have now changed their method/s, have changed management or whatever! By the way: I can take a good guess based on said description so what's that - in legal terms - if it's not naming and shaming?

That's not to say that it is still a complete pain in the a*se and a real shame that said company couldn't deliver the goods.

I too have had experience of a company (up north) who spot welded the front wing but in this case, a certain place in Bath released the wing, removed the weld and sorted it out for me this summer.
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