Tappets

[svenedin]

Funnily enough I have just been adjusting the tappets. I tried the modern Gunson tool again, having squirted oil into the tool. Still the same problem. It won't make a loud click without having compressed the valve spring. These valves springs were new earlier this year so they certainly are not weak. Of course, I could not find the old tool so I had to do it the old fashioned way. It does take a lot longer!

This is an aside but it is about rocker clearances. My engine was professionally rebuilt earlier this year. There was a delay between the rebuilt engine being installed and the rebuild paperwork arriving so I set the rocker clearances to the workshop manual figure of 12 thou. In fact, the rebuild booklet told me to set the rocker clearances to 16 thou. I queried this with the engine builder and he told me this was due to differences between the old and the new camshaft. We agreed a compromise as I was worried the top end would be too noisy at 16 thou and I set to 14 thou. The engine ran well but there tended to be a lot of vibration at idle revs and the idle was a little bit rough. I blamed this on the over-hard new engine mount rubbers and the fact that 1098s are not as smooth as the 948s. Anyway, I just set the clearances to 16 thou and the engine is much smoother and only sounds a bit noisy at the top end when cold. It goes to show that these adjustments are critical if you want the engine to run beautifully as opposed to OK.

I recall the old mechanic, Dave Winton, who taught me the basics when I was 17. He used to say that when properly adjusted, tuned and timed these little engines should tick over like Singer sewing machines. In other words perfectly. They do!

Stephen

[stuffedpike20]

I am glad I am not the only one who has problems with this tool....I began to think I was having a senior moment.

I got my tool from fleabay. I think it is an original...similar to the one Bill has got, but mine has an external clicker on a sprung thumb tab. It allows you to lock the screwdriver in the up position as you locate the socket to slacken the lock nut.
Sorry I don't have the tech to put a photo up.

[Bill_qaz]

I am glad I am not the only one who has problems with this tool....I began to think I was having a senior moment.

I got my tool from fleabay. I think it is an original...similar to the one Bill has got, but mine has an external clicker on a sprung thumb tab. It allows you to lock the screwdriver in the up position as you locate the socket to slacken the lock nut.
Sorry I don't have the tech to put a photo up.

Do you mean like this picture, mine has no external ratchet.
Do your instructions, or if you can find it online for this type, say to leave it engaged whilst tightening? Is this the same thing that gives the clicks when adjusting?
Is it a Gunson or spqr?

Screenshot_20250815-142511_eBay.jpg (133.72 KiB) Viewed 8081 times

[stuffedpike20]

Yes that is the one. It is an SPQR.

The thumb bar mechanism gives the measurement clicks. You disengage the clicker when tightening the lock nut.

I have cleaned and oiled mine, but I think that the 'automatic torque loading mechanism' will still not click unless the valve spring has been compressed a bit.

[svenedin]

These are my two.

Left old SPQR (sold by Draper) tool with plastic wedge tool to stop the valve spring being compressed by accident. Sold with SPQR 7/16" socket

Right new Gunson tool that compresses the valve spring before it makes the loud click so it is essentially useless. Sold without socket.

Both tools are 1/2" socket drive.

The older tool works perfectly!!!

Stephen

IMG_2405.jpeg (2.77 MiB) Viewed 8047 times

[Bill_qaz]

These are my two.

Left old SPQR (sold by Draper) tool with plastic wedge tool to stop the valve spring being compressed by accident. Sold with SPQR 7/16" socket

Right new Gunson tool that compresses the valve spring before it makes the loud click so it is essentially useless. Sold without socket.

Both tools are 1/2" socket drive.

The older tool works perfectly!!!

Stephen


IMG_2405.jpeg

Neither of your have the external tensioner. So there must be a third type?

[svenedin]

These are my two.

Left old SPQR (sold by Draper) tool with plastic wedge tool to stop the valve spring being compressed by accident. Sold with SPQR 7/16" socket

Right new Gunson tool that compresses the valve spring before it makes the loud click so it is essentially useless. Sold without socket.

Both tools are 1/2" socket drive.

The older tool works perfectly!!!

Stephen


IMG_2405.jpeg

Neither of your have the external tensioner. So there must be a third type?

Yes there's a third type with a red handle and an external ratchet that makes the quiet clicks and a fourth type that has a black wheel type handle (similar to the handle on an old water valve) that is often seen in a wooden box.

Stephen

[Bill_qaz]

These are my two.

Left old SPQR (sold by Draper) tool with plastic wedge tool to stop the valve spring being compressed by accident. Sold with SPQR 7/16" socket

Right new Gunson tool that compresses the valve spring before it makes the loud click so it is essentially useless. Sold without socket.

Both tools are 1/2" socket drive.

The older tool works perfectly!!!

Stephen


IMG_2405.jpeg

Neither of your have the external tensioner. So there must be a third type?

Yes there's a third type with a red handle and an external ratchet that makes the quiet clicks and a fourth type that has a black wheel type handle (similar to the handle on an old water valve) that is often seen in a wooden box.

Stephen

Yes thats the "palm handle" which is a detachable. You can see it in the pic I posted of my complete set in box.

20250809_132501_1.jpg (185.37 KiB) Viewed 7985 times

[stuffedpike20]

Sadly, I think mine is 'essentially useless' too.

[Bill_qaz]

Sadly, I think mine is 'essentially useless' too.

Don't broadcast you have a useless tool
You will get loads of messages from numan

[svenedin]

Sadly, I think mine is 'essentially useless' too.

I might see if I can disassemble the tool and reduce the strength of the spring that controls the torque for the loud click. I am not sure how to do this in a non-destructive way and I don't have time at the moment for such experiments of idle curiosity! If I have any success I will let you know of course.....

For now, you could use a plastic wedge to prevent the valve spring being compressed. I know you don't have the wedge that came with the earlier tools but the plastic tools used to remove car trim would be just as good. You know what the SPQR wedge looks like. You can buy a set of plastic trim removal tools quite cheaply and they are useful for removing such things as door cards without scratching the paint. Useful of course for plastic trim pieces on modern cars. Don't buy the very cheap plastic tools as they are flimsy and useless.

For example: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01L8GHB7O? ... tle_1&th=1

Stephen

[svenedin]

Sadly, I think mine is 'essentially useless' too.

My curiosity got the better of me.

See if this helps:viewtopic.php?p=710785#p710785

Stephen

[stuffedpike20]

Well done Stephen. I will give it a go.

[stuffedpike20]

I have modified my tool. (So no need for numan).

It was not easy getting the cap off. Mine has a screwdriver slot, not a crosshead. I put rubber grease on the ratchet mechanism, and filed a bit off the spring.
Now, like Bill, I can hold the screwdriver bit and turn the ratchet until it clicks.

[Bill_qaz]

Well done, its always a gamble with 2nd hand and frustrating if it doesn’t work as expected. You almost feel ripped off, but now it will feel extra satisfying when you use in knowing you sorted it.
It great when a topic leads to good informative discussions and will probably help others. Its what a good forum group does

[svenedin]

I have modified my tool. (So no need for numan).

It was not easy getting the cap off. Mine has a screwdriver slot, not a crosshead. I put rubber grease on the ratchet mechanism, and filed a bit off the spring.
Now, like Bill, I can hold the screwdriver bit and turn the ratchet until it clicks.

Super! I think shortening the spring is the best way to adjust the tool but of course it is permanent. Superior to leaving the screw loose but adjusting the screw gives an idea of how much the spring needs shortening.

Stephen

[gazsen]

Hi,
Thanks for the advice concerning my questions. I have set all at 0.012" and engine starts but runs really rough. Have checked the firing sequence, 1,3,4,2. Should I reset gap at 0.015"?

[svenedin]

Hi,
Thanks for the advice concerning my questions. I have set all at 0.012" and engine starts but runs really rough. Have checked the firing sequence, 1,3,4,2. Should I reset gap at 0.015"?

Do you know anything about the history of your engine? Rebuilds, modifications etc?

My engine (a standard 1098cc) was rebuilt earlier this year. Although it has a brand new "standard" camshaft, I was told by the engine builder to set the gaps for all 8 valves at 16 thousandths of an inch (0.016"). As an experiment I tried both the standard 0.012" and 0.014" and 0.016". It ran best at 0.016" as expected. You could try 0.016" and report back.

You are using the correct technique to determine the valve that is "rocking" I presume?

Did you take the spark plugs out to make it easier to turn the engine over? I presume you did because you mention the firing order. The firing order 1,3,4,2 is correct but that is ANTICLOCKWISE around the distributor cap.

If your HT leads are correct, the spark plug gaps correct (and the plugs clean) and the rocker gaps correct then it might be that you need to tweak the fuel mixture and the ignition timing after such a big change in the rocker gaps.

One thing at a time though. First check HT lead sequence. If you need a refresher of how to determine HT lead number 1, try this: using the starting handle turn the engine over whilst holding your finger over the number 1 spark plug hole. When you feel compression trying to force your finger away from the spark plug hole you are on the compression stroke. Now go under the car and line up the notch in the crankshaft pulley with the longest timing pointer on the timing chain cover. This is TDC, top dead centre. Now take the cover off the distributor and work out which HT lead is in contact with the distributor rotor. This is the lead to cylinder 1.

Stephen

[oliver90owner]

Hi,
Thanks for the advice concerning my questions. I have set all at 0.012" and engine starts but runs really rough. Have checked the firing sequence, 1,3,4,2. Should I reset gap at 0.015"?

Have you considered that the rough running might be caused by something else?

[myoldjalopy]

Agreed - if all else is set up correctly, the engine should definitely not run "really rough" with valves set to 0.012"