Minor Matters

[MarkyB]

orange corduroy trousers

Obviously a man of taste .

[John C]

Louise - I'd say that describing a Fiat Twin Cam engine as 'an affront' is something of a condemnation of modifications...

MarkyB - Yep!

[LouiseM]

But it's only certain modifications (and accessories) he states that he dislikes - those that spoil the 'period charm and aesthetics' of the Minor - not all modifications. He doesn't seem to mind period modifications such as a Shorrocks supercharger or 'discreet' non-period modifications such as Marina or Ital brakes (which he had on his own car), which he says are acceptable. So that was my point about the article not being "anti-modification" as such - he just dislikes certain modifications and accessories, not all of them.

[dalebrignall]

all i will say is each to their own,with there cars.there is no right or wrong,its up to the owners to do what they like with there cars.the main thing is that they are still on the road and being enjoyed which is what its all about ,not bickering about who has what on there cars,really life is to short .

[John C]

Louise - We can split hairs over which mods are okay and which aren't forever, that's not my point at all as several posts of mine state; simply put I find his pompous, arrogant, know-it-all, self-assured, smug, orange corduroy tone offensive and feel that less divisive language would have been better in such an article in Minor Matters. Forget the for or against mods argument. JC

[Alex'n'Ane]

A zetec is discreet when the bonnet is closed..

[faversham999]

So many people care about the Morris Minor here , There are still many Morris Minors left on the road , any car still working can only be good. Not all cars have such a loyal following . There are only 37 Morris Itals left, So with this debate it still keeps the moggie keeps alive .

[morris van]

A friend of mine had a Morris Ital from new and it was scrap when it was only six months old.He was going along the motorway doing 70mph when the engine fell out and when someone came from Morris to look at it they found the engine bay and floor was completly rotten.My friend got a full refund.

[chrisryder]

that sort of answers the profs question 'why not just get a marina?' if all itals were like that, then that's why so many people put ital engines in minors, and why people after that bit more speed don't just get a marina/ital.

it's more likely that people have minors instead of marinas/ital as minors are far far prettier

[phurn]

That sounds like bl! Tbf though, if I had spent hours and untold amounts of hard work dropping a fiat in ky minor, with a sunvisor for some guy in orange cords to call it an affront, well is be majorly annoyed.
He doesn't have to like it, but he doesn't have to insult it either, to my mind that article alienated atleast half the club, and for that I think the club has to accept its made an error of judgement in publishing an article they knew was going to be contentious

[Neil MG]

A friend of mine had a Morris Ital from new and it was scrap when it was only six months old.He was going along the motorway doing 70mph when the engine fell out and when someone came from Morris to look at it they found the engine bay and floor was completly rotten.My friend got a full refund.

[rayofleamington]

The Minor was the product of world class engineering, made with drive and vision.
My love of the car is as much for the brilliant product it was as much as the styling*.

Many following visions were held back, due to the way BL/BMC was managed. The Marina was put together in a rush to compete with Ford and most of the engineering was old school with some improvements -a cheap eveloution, not a revolution like the Minor. This stiffling of innovation carried on far too long, leaving the Metro to be 15 years late to market, when the company was in panic again trying to imitate, instead of leading the way.

As for the Marina - it wasn't such a bad car but had some awful mud traps and poor metal protection. The legendary bad handling was more in people's minds than in the cars - started by a poor decision to allow the initial suspension into market and update it as a running change very soon afterwards. The suspension was fixed but the reputation was permanent.
The 'British disease' is to look for anything negative about our products and spread the bad knews as far and wide as possible.
Conversely VW can make some really unreliable cars and be seen as a good brand...

The lack of Marina's / Itals is surely a factor of corrosion with the worlds worst PR and road tax charges on top - are they actually a better every day classic car than a Minor...? (quieter, comfortable, practical etc..)

*The styling was not to everyone's taste (despite having a lot of similarity with a 40's American vehicle seen by Issigonis on a trip to the US prior to styling the minor)

[Dryad]

I'm really surprised people have taken offence to the prof's article - hasn't this whole argument got a touch out of proportion? It's just one person's opinion! I remember someone on this forum saying that almond green is a horrible colour, and I was surprised as it's my favourite of all the Minor colours, but I didn't take offence. I like to hear other's opinions, even when they are the opposite of mine. To be honest, I'm glad that Minor Matters has finally published something controversial. Let's have more!

For the record, I agree with Prof Fawcett on one area; headlamp peaks and sun visors! (Excuse me while I get a bucket to be sick into...) I see it as an attempt to anthropomorphise the Minor, making it look like it has eyelids and a baseball cap on.
But, each to their own...

[charlie_morris_minor]

if the point of the article was to be controversial.. ok.. the trouble is that there was no opposing view given in the same magazine the editor did not even end the article by saying "come on give me your opinion" and that, i am sorry to say, is a bad failure on behalf of the editor.

if i was a new to the owners club and this was the first magazine i received it gives the impression that this is the view of the club not an individual.. what a great welcome if you have a modified moggy

about a year ago i offered my services to help run the modified register.. i got a few emails about supporting the current person running the register and even exchanged a few emails it all then went quiet.. i know this is an off topic rant, but it adds to my feeling that the MMOC does not care about the modified register..

.. alas if it was not a requirement of my insurance i would have left the MMOC along time ago

[MarkyB]

One of the best things about the MMOC is that it a very broad church, everyone can find a kindred spirit.
Prof Orange trousers is clearly a bit of an extremest, but doesn't represent the whole club by a long chalk.
It's a free country, and we all get a say.

[simmitc]

Having been away from the board for a while, I came back and was astounded to see that an article in MM had generated so many posts. I was even more astounded by the vitriolic tone of many of those posts. I have read Professor Fawcett's article several times, and simply cannot see where the alleged "holier than thou" attitude is supposed to be.

In my opinion, the article is well reasoned, and explores how one's opinions change with time. I do not agree with everything on the "omit list" - I could not survive without my tow bars or (as the cars are all used daily) my heated front and rear screens; but I agree entirely about headlamp peaks and external sun visors. However, the article does not tell me that I cannot have my choice of accessory, and I would not attempt to tell others not to fit peaks.

I can recall discussing the mis-interpretation of the "fox hunting" matter at the same time that an article I wrote provoked a "correction" of something that I had not written. Hopefully the current debate arises simply because a few people have read into an article something that many of us think is not threre. That said, everyone is entitled to an opinion, and long may we be able to share our views without fear of condemnation.

I would like to thank Louise for her balanced and sensible views, and the authors of the later posts expounding the virtue of a broad Church. Well done to Nicola for publishing an article, and thanks to Professor Fawcett for taking the time to write for the magazine. Also thank you to the modifiers who give us something to look at. Don't forget that the earliest modification was probably to cut the car in half and widen it by four inches

[MarkyB]

Good point, well put, how big would the Mosquito club be? Not as big and healthy as the MMOC is I bet.

[polo2k]

Good point, well put, how big would the Mosquito club be?

Pretty small I think:

[LouiseM]

the trouble is that there was no opposing view given in the same magazine the editor did not even end the article by saying "come on give me your opinion" and that, i am sorry to say, is a bad failure on behalf of the editor. if i was a new to the owners club and this was the first magazine i received it gives the impression that this is the view of the club not an individual.. what a great welcome if you have a modified moggy

As stated previously, the editor can only publish articles that have been submitted. It’s highly unlikely that two articles, giving opposing views on the same subject, would be submitted at the same time. None of the articles ask members to give their opinions but is that really necessary? There’s a letters page and members can, and frequently do, provide a comment on articles that have been posted. I’m sure that if members wish to comment on the article in question they’ll write in. As for a new member feeling that the content of just one article represented the view of the entire club, if that was really the case presumably a new member with a standard Minor receiving the Jan/Feb issue with a 2 page spread on a Fiat twin cam transplant (spread over 2 issues) might think that the view of the entire club was that Minors should be modified and wasn’t a great welcome too ? I think most people are actually quite sensible and realise, same as with any magazine, that articles contain the views of the person who wrote it, not anyone else.

about a year ago i offered my services to help run the modified register.. i got a few emails about supporting the current person running the register and even exchanged a few emails it all then went quiet..

Problem is that running a Register can take up a huge amount of time and most people either can’t, or don’t want to, make that sort of commitment. Back in November Kevin asked for volunteers to run the Custom Register website. I don’t know if he received any response via pm but there was no response on the thread:

http://www.mmoc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f= ... 4&start=30

I don’t know who you e-mailed previously, so can’t comment on that, but if you are serious about running the Register make a start by contacting Kevin and offering to run the Register website. He’s away at the moment but I’m sure he’ll get back in touch on his return.

One of the best things about the MMOC is that it a very broad church, everyone can find a kindred spirit. Prof Orange trousers is clearly a bit of an extremest, but doesn't represent the whole club by a long chalk.

Absolutely! I’ve owned Minors for 25 years now, on and off, have been to loads of rallies and met a huge number of other Minor owners and Club members. Most will be quite happy to look over all of the other cars there, and stop for a chat with you, regardless of whether they prefer modified, standard, period modifications, period accessories, travellers, vans, pick ups, convertibles or saloons. The vast majority of Minor owners that I’ve met don’t care a jot about what someone else thinks about their car, and wouldn’t get upset in the slightest if someone commented that they didn’t like what they had done to it. At the end of the day it's still a Minor.

Personally I think some of the comments here about how a single magazine article, containing the views of just one person in a club of approx 13,00 members, will somehow be ‘divisive’ to the Club or ‘alienate’ large numbers of members, who will assume that the article is representative of the views of the entire Club, are doing a huge disservice to a large number of people. The article will only be ‘divisive’ if people allow it to be.

[Alex'n'Ane]

I do agree about the commenting on articles. For example with he twin-cam conversion there was an excellent letter the next week stating how nice it was to see about modding and transplants for a change, but that it wasn't really as relevant an article now due to more modern transplants being more common, zetec for instance. I have written a letter reply which i hope is to a similar effect about this specific article and would like to read others too if published