Ignition

[geoberni]

with the key in the on position, I can push down on the black button located between the solenoid’s terminals to start my car. Manual override if you will. You might push on this button a few times to see if that loosens it up. It could be the solenoid’s internals is going bad and replacement is the only solution.

Depends on the originality of the Solenoid. The manual button was a common feature in the early days of key start systems, certainly into the 70s but not found on new items for decades in my experience.

You can see on Stanmo's photo that he doesn't have a manual button.

Edit: I see that simmitc was typing at the same time as moi, and has found a link to a different configuration of solenoid that does have a button on the bottom. I've not seen those before.

[geoberni]

There's been a lot of good advice given here, but looking through this topic, I'm wondering why there is so much black paint around
Or is it even rubberised insulation coating?
Has that been cleaned off the terminal surfaces since the photos?

terminal.JPG (114.81 KiB) Viewed 847 times

Responses such as :

First checked the red white terminal by removal of connection and using a piece of wire from here to live terminal. First few touches nothing then it started clicking.

are easily explained by a little oxidisation of the terminal surface, not having good metal to metal contact on the first couple of touches.

Just a little 'heads up' for Stanmo

I’ve tried the turning lights on for a while but doesn’t cure it.

That's the worst thing to do when having any problems starting as it's taking more power from the battery.....

As with simmitc, from what I can make out of the various responses, it looks like the solenoid, although I'd be all over it with a multimeter.
Not having one of these solenoids myself (SII Pull Starter), from memory, isn't the earth of the solenoid coil via it's mounting to the bodywork?
Has it been checked for a good clean connection?
While you're fiddling with it and leaning on it, you could be pressing it against the bodywork and improving the contact, go back to using the key and it's a poor contact again.

[kennatt]

after re reading your posts you say (Reconnecting the car started first time and then stalled and then nothing)
If the car was running as above,there are many things that would cause it to stall,BUT any fault with the solenoid,the wiring or the starter motor would have no effect on the running of the engine once started
. I Now strongly suspect that the fault lies in the ignition switch.
Without a meter and the knowledge of how to use one,(have you one) you may be better obtaining another switch,or buy a can of switch cleaner and spray it into the switch to see if it improves it,then buy a new switch .May be the simplest thing to do before delving into replacement of other more complicated components.

[geoberni]

after re reading your posts you say (Reconnecting the car started first time and then stalled and then nothing)

The trouble is, for anyone without an understanding of basic electrics, there are so many variables even with such a simple subject. Simple misdirection can occur, just because of a careless innocent phrase being used.

Reconnecting the car started first time and then stalled and then nothing.

For example, did it 'stop' because the supply from the switch was interrupted by a dirty contact, or did it genuinely 'stall' because perhaps there wasn't enough Choke, therefore a completely unrelated occurrence? Did the Ign light come on because it had stalled?

If there was a meter involved, we could check if the voltage level through the switch was a consistent value when operated, and not all over the place.

[oliver90owner]

All we need now is someone, with a test lamp, to muddy the waters. That being about as useful as a chocolate teapot - in that the only good test with that device would be whether 12V was available (with sufficient current to light the lamp) at the coil connection.

Yes, the multimeter tests are the way to go - but only if one has one understands how to use it and what the results actually indicate. There is still a faint possibility it is the starter motor at fault, unless the actual fault is definitively isolated to one component - it will be switch, solenoid, starter or even a wiring connection.

My favourite guess, without any proper corroborating evidence, is the key switch - but I would be searching for confirmation, with my multimeter, before necessarily changing it at the cost of a new item.

[simmitc]

I think that we're in danger of confusing the OP. There is no meter available, so let's work with what we have. The existing results suggest that the solenoid is the most likely culprit, although I agree that it could be the other components - and a few other things too, but on the balance of probability, the solenoid is the thing to change. Now, at the risk of muddying the waters, I was about to suggest using a test lamp...

Stanmo, if you can get a 12 volt lamp of any description with a couple of wires on it, then connect one side to earth (direct to the battery is ine) and the other side to the white/red wire on the solenoid. If the wires are long enough, then sit in the car holding the lamp, if not, then get an assistant. Operate the key switch and watch the lamp. When the starter fails to operate, does the lamp still illuminate? If yes, then it confirms that the solenoid is faulty, if no, then it moves the problem further back towards the switch.

The theory behind this is that the key switch causes 12 volts to flow along the white/red wire to the solenoid. That 12 volts makes the solenoid close contacts to supply the starter motor with power. The 12 volts in the white/red lead will also illuminate the lamp, so if the lamp illuminates we know that power is getting to the solenoid, and if the solenoid does not work, then it must be faulty. Equally, if neither the solenoid nor the lamp work, then there is no power getting there, and the switch or wiring will be at fault.

Caveat: It is presumed that all other systems are functioning correctly, and it is only the starter that occasionally fails to turn.

[geoberni]

2nd Caveat:
Does the lamp light to the full brilliance you would expect, for whatever lamp you are using, every time you operate the key?
Is it a bit 'iffy' on the brilliance, or inconsistent on the brightness levels between attempts.

It's preferable to use a decent wattage lamp, such as a 21w indicator lamp; if you use a piddly little 5w lamp, or a little 'warning lamp' it's going to make the task more difficult.

[oliver90owner]

Simmitc

Yes, you are potentially muddying the waters. You (or the OP) may think that voltage is power, but that is not correct. Power is the product of voltage and current - one can have voltage without sufficient current or current without sufficient voltage, neither of which might provide sufficient power to operate a device.

As Geoberni states, you must use a test lamp of sufficient wattage (power) to get a truthful result even for that particular test. An LED test lamp may not give the correct result!

I don’t know (and don’t particularly wish to check) how much current, at 12 volts, the solenoid might need to operate the main power contacts. I would guess around 2A.

[Stanmo]

Result!! Change solenoid and left overnight, cold as hell this Christmas morning and she started with the turn of a key.. MERRY CHRISTMAS ALL and thank you for your advice guidance and solutions.