Engine question

Post by **Chris Morley** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 8:47 pm

Interesting to learn how much aerodynamic drag is created by those naff looking sunvisors and headlamp peaks!

Has anyone ever tried to smooth the airflow under a Minor by creating some kind of valance to cover the chassis legs, crossmember etc? That might yield an extra 5 mph top speed and give a little downforce as well (and protect some of the underside from road salt).

Post by **bmcecosse** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 8:47 pm

How the head lamp peaks are allowed is also beyond me - hit anyone with these things - even at very low speed - and you will slice them open !!

Post by **wolvessiamese** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 9:14 pm

Now if I had wanted to mod a corsa dont you think i would have bought a corsa in the first place.

Apart from the fact that i am not a "boy racer" I like the shape of the moggy it just needs a bit of extra work.

Donna

Post by **Onne** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 9:54 pm

Yer, like another Minor to go with it

Post by **Rasputin** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 10:42 pm

I have a naff!

sunvisor fitted to my pickup,but it doesn`t affect the top speed much as it has four sets of louvres to let the air flow through.

Post by **Pyoor_Kate** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 8:09 am

Guys, guys, guys! I'm appauled!

Yeah, I'm not big on custom minors myself, although I've seen some that were impressive. If Donna wants to talk customise her minor then yeah, Jonathan ('scuse spelling), from JLH is probably a good start. Otherwise she might be better off going to a show, or the National, and seeking out some of the customising crowd.

Although I love my minor's shape just the way it is, if she's going to keep another minor on the road, then that should just be a good thing. Although I may still extract the urine as I drive past (or more likely, get overtaken!).

Post by **Cam** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 11:24 am

bmcecosse wrote:Better go buy a Corsa if you want to mess about with 'skirts' and 'spoilers ' !! The Minor just does not suit any of that stuff. Only 'bodykit' available is the sunvisor - now that's a real 'spoiler' - spoils the top speed by about 10 mph. Why anyone would want to do that is beyond me - but if it rocks your boat.......

Well, that's the thing about 'customisation' it's very subjective. I PERSONALLY think most custom Minors look a right mess, but I'm sure their owners think they are great and that my car looks a right mess!

And CAM - there is just no real strength in the Traveller at the rear for damper turrets like these. I tried something similar - and it just wrecked the floor ! At least the saloon has a nice stiffening diaphragm across the rear seat back - the Traveller has nothing.

Eh? The structural strength is in the Ash frame, which is why you can fail the MoT on poor wood as it's structural. I agree, if you take the wood off then the back end will flap and twist about like a fish!

I think Jonathon might have something to say about this as he's produced a racing traveller with a K-series engine and a similarly set-up rear end and I'm fairly certain he's not had any structural strength problems as he tends to over-engineer things for the sake of strength and safety.

The turrets are welded through the floor and have spreader plates welded each side of them. They are also welded to the upper part of the rear chassis extension box sections. They don't go anywhere NEAR the wheel arches (inner wings in the Minor's case). They also have a large rectangular box section that links the two turrets together and is welded to the top of the diff 'bump' in the floor. With that set-up they are moving NOWHERE!!! If you wanted extra strength (not that you need it) then you can weld a link plate from the turret top the the inner wing.

The wheel arches are held by virtually nothing - and screwed to the wood to stop them flapping about !!

Well, the wheel arches are just covers, they are not MEANT to be structural!! The Mini ones are, the Minor ones aren't!

Post by **Kevin** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 3:48 pm

Donna you can lower the car by adjusting the tortion bars at the front I am not sure exactly by how much but at least an 1" and at the rear you would have to use lowering blocks to lower the springs, as for wheels the van ones are popular but can cost £250 a set, Midget ones also fit but are 13" and will affect your speedo reading depending on profile and then there is the Minilite style ones that come in both 13" & 14" sizes are are around £65 - £75 each you can see those in the Birmingham ad on the back of Minor Matters, but 1st get a copy of the Owen Burton book as lots of things are explained in it, its not perfect but is a good starting point.
http://www.morris-minor.co.uk/p751.htm

Post by **jonathon** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 9:24 pm

There are several points I'd like to address here, hopefully not essay length.
Firstly the original poster wanted to know about body kits and size of wheels suitable for customisation. It is possible to fit 17" rims with 40 section tyres, however these are not recommended and should not be fitted to the standard hubs. They will give an awful ride quality unless your using then primarily on the race track. I would say 15" rims look great, we fitted a set to both a traveller and 52 split screen 2dr and the give the desired effect of filling the arches without compromising the ride height or quality.
Body kits are few and far between for the minor. We probably supply the widest range from spoilers,sunvisors, flip fronts oversized rear wings, smooth boot lids etc etc. As mentioned in previous posts the minor looks best in its original form or with a subtle amount of sympathetic modification.
On the suspension front, you have a few basic suppliers MMC Bath who are the retail outlet, for the ex- Owen Burton Mods, Charles Wares MMC and CS Autoclassics who essentially sell similar kits, although they would probably not like me saying so, and ourselves at JLH. Its easiest for you to contact me direct as its not prudent for me to discuss products and prices on this forum.
I agree whole heartedly with Cam about our turreted rear damper kit. We have researched this design fully and have several competition cars with this system fitted. The feed back has been extreamly positive and we are confident that there is no structural degradation to the chassis. The theory behind this kit in the traveller is to brace the turrets to the chassis legs then to each other via a 50x20mm box section. Each turret is surrounded at its base with 3mm x30mm plate all seam welded into position. We allow the inner rear wings to be free of any constraint, as tying these down and making a ridgid structure is detrimental to the wood and can cause the splitting of the joints. The Timber frame should be regarded as a semi floating assembly, being allowed a degree of flex. To try and create a non moving of flex absorbant structure will lead to twists and splitting. It is essential in this regard that when assembling the timber frame that it is in no way stressed to fit the metal work.
There is also a difficult line to be drawn between modified and custom. Personally I regard that the work we perform even on the K series to be a modification process and not custom. This term Custom I would apply to vehicles which retain very little of the original cars looks and basic structure, and can be distinguished by oversized panel work, roof chops etc etc. I know many of you will disagree with the approach we take to 'modified ' minors and would term our work as custom, indeed the MMOC guidelines on judging at rallies would concur with this opinion.
Unfortunately giving a company this label alone can detract attention from other aspects of the rest of their repetoir. Infact the majority of our work is on standard minors from cheap runarounds upto concours standard. We are afterall ,formostly a bodyshop.
A bit of tollerance on other people's views on how 'their ' minor should look like should be more forth comming, headlight peaks, sunvisors etc.
There have been many excellent examples of custom minors that have been sympathetically modified.
Adult replies welcome!l

.

Post by **d_harris** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 10:17 pm

I think the ultimate answer in terms of custom/modded/original as I think Johnathon and Cam were suggesting is "your minor looks best, as you think it looks best"

correct me if I'm wrong lads! (and lasses!)

Post by **jonathon** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 10:25 pm

correct!

Post by **Rasputin** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 10:31 pm

I quite agree Dan,I have a sunvisor on my pickup because I think it looks ok.Also it was available when the cars were new,and if anytime in the future I change my mind ,I just have to unbolt it and throw it away!...or sell it. As they say horses for courses...

Post by **d_harris** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 10:41 pm

I have to add, I positivly adore the sunvisors and light 'caps'

Although one day I would love a concours OEW trav, I would also love a car like this http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y150/d ... inorsr.jpg perphaps not quite so lowered, with minilites and the caps and visor.

Post by **wolvessiamese** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 11:53 pm

Thanks for all the replies guys, as I have said to Kevin in PM's all I am doing at the moment is trying to find out what can be done.

I have just finished laying a drive so I have somewhere to work now I can fetch her to my house from my parents, where she has been since November under cover while I saved a bit and got drive done, and see exactly what needs doing and what I want to do.

Realistically I would like to keep most of the shape of the moggy but round some areas off, lower her, new engine/gearbox/exhaust, nice wheels and a few of the luxuries of modern cars. I would hope that what I do decide to do will be in a sypathetic way and not make people think "what has she done to that poor car" lol

Donna

Post by **Cam** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 10:39 am

Donna, I think most people will appreciate the work you have (will) put into your 'customisation'. In my experience at rallies, people are generally very forgiving and a car that stands out from the 'crowd' usually gets a lot of interest and you'll probably end up talking to people for hours about your car!!

At the end of the day, it's your car and you can do whatever you like!

Post by **bmcecosse** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 8:07 pm

Yes - I have already designed a Forth Bridge type structure for the rear dampers in my mind, although I had intended mine to be below decks ! But the Traveller will never be as stiff as a Saloon at the back. And you certainly cannot use the timber frame for any kind of structural support. I had rear tele dampers on a 4 door 40 years ago - and they survived Rallying down many a rough white road just fine ! The sunvisor is a personal choice thing - you are lucky if you get some sun to need hiding from ! But I do seriously think the head lamp peaks are DANGEROUS - and completely naff too !

Post by **rayofleamington** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 9:42 pm

And you certainly cannot use the timber frame for any kind of structural support.

Strange - as the car wouldn't last 5 minutes without it.