Anyone done the convertible conversion?

[bmcecosse]

But a Million others thought it wasn't........

[tysonn]

Sorry but youre boring me now.

[bmcecosse]

Cheer up old chap - don't take it all too seriously

[charlie_morris_minor]

Luckily 75000 people thought the convertible was worth making.Will let you all know how it goes with the DVLA.

which happens to be 50,000 more than purchased a TR7 convertible

[MarkyB]

Touche!

[bmcecosse]

Ahh but it was only available for a very few years - and sold to a very discerning clientèle Much sought after these days!! Certainly not aware of anyone cutting the roof off a fixed top to make a drop-head.....

[lambrettalad]

Tea anybody?

[AntB]

Best thread ever!

[moggyminor16]

we had the same problem but there was a member on here came up with the name of the chassie
all saloons can be a convertible they was all made a convertible before the roof was added if you look under ther rear side windows you will find that it has teh holes for teh monting of the rear side frames.
make sure you add all teh parts needed before you cut the roof off, then you need to be good to refroum the front panel above the window screen soem have found a old convertible and cut the window scree top off and rewelded it on to the chop job.
then you may have to get it checked out at a vla site they have a look to make sue its the right car that it says on log book check the chassie numbers on teh id plate and stamped on the body

they can be done and they can be safe but you must weld in all the parts that is needed as once the roof is off if it folds there is not a lot you can do about it after wards

[tysonn]

Well yesterday got put through to a chap at Charles Wares who's involved with their conversions and he has assured me that its just a matter of changing the details on the V5 and sending it off to Swansea so as soon as it comes back from change of ownership I'll do this and let you all know the result.

[charlie_morris_minor]

thank you for the update

[tysonn]

Well as promised after today receiving a letter from DVLA I am now in a position to give the facts on whats involved in registering your saloon as a convertible after converting it.
The letter asks for pics of the car(after and if possible before the conversion)and state they must show the reg number.The V894 reply slip asks what the vehicle is used for including any modification to the chassis or bodyshell,a description of the vehicle and its use.It asks for a daytime phone number and has to be signed and returned in the pre-paid envelope.There is a direct contact number for the woman in charge and a ref: number.I called her to explain that all the spares suppliers sell the kit and Charles Ware had told me that its simply a matter of changing the details on the V5.She said that was categorically incorrect advice.She also said she would expect the car to have to be inspected at a local DVLA.Asked her about retaining the reg number but she said that wasnt her department and couldnt advise.
I bought the car off this forum a few months ago half finished and what tempted me was the rust free shell.I figured that if I had either bought a saloon to convert myself(and am sure I would struggle to find one in such a rust free condition)or bought a genuine ragtop to restore both would cost far more in the long term to get to the cars present condition.I am sure that I would be feeling even more miffed if I had already owned a saloon and just paid the best part of £1000 for the conversion kit from Charles Ware after asking them what was involved in registering the car afterwards and being given the same advice.I never thought at the time to get the name of the person there that gave me the info.They do sell cars that they have converted themselves. I could have been devious and lied and told the DVLA that I hadnt started to convert the car and was merely getting the paperwork done before I started(DVLA now have the V5 and I won't be able to get it back until I go through with the DVLA inspection)but I thought that if ever I had a bad accident in the car or heaven forbid hit a child or similar and the insurance assessor checked the V5 details and discovered that the car was a convertible but the V5 said it was a saloon that would invalidate my insurance.Also if I ever sold the car on I wouldnt be able to rest thinking the same thing could happen to a new owner.
This leads me to wonder how many cars are being driven around either knowingly or not with incorrect V5 details?I will now have to bite the bullet and go through all the procedure(not right away as I'm still refurbing my traveller).I can't get a concrete idea of the costs involved using Google but some places suggested £450!!!!!!!I wonder could this circumstance be something that the club could get involved in?I mean getting it clarified with the DVLA that there is so little a difference in the bodyshell of the body types.In fact the PO of my car used patterns of the 3 reinforcing plates to have replacements made in thicker steel than the spares sellers supply and the welding standard is first class.
Anyway if my experience helps a prospective future saloon convertor to weigh up whats involved then it will have been worthwhile.It may possibly have stopped me buying the car but theres no point crying over spilt milk!Will follow this up when I eventually get round to doing the last few things to the car to get it road ready but reckon it will be maybe at least a couple of months from now.
Mick

[chrisd87]

Interesting. Did the DVLA mention what type of 'inspection' the car would have to go through? If it's the IVA test, then unfortunately that'll be a major headache, and very expensive. If it's just an VIC (identity check), no problem.

There was an article on this subject a couple of years ago in Minor Matters. IIRC the story was that someone had been told the car would have to go through (what was then) the SVA test and have a Q-plate at the end of it all. This person then contacted the club, who through their contact with the DVLA were able to sort the issue out. I think the argument used by the club was that the finished article was so similar to a production convertible (by virtue of using the same sort of strengthening, etc.), that it should not have to go through the test. I wonder if this is how Charles Ware (and other specialists) register their cars.

If the DVLA have told you the car will need an IVA inspection, then I'd definitely look to get advice from the club. If the specialists are registering their cars without one, there must be a legal way to do so.

[tysonn]

No the woman merely said she thought it would result in an inspection and I didnt think to ask which type she meant.I wouldnt have thought she was referring to the VIC as there is no indication that its not just the original car thats been modified but I could be wrong.
When I phoned Charles Ware(and I am in no way suggesting that such a reputable company would do things or give advice wrongly its merely the fact that they were the Company that I first thought of to ask) I just called the number on the website.The chap that answered said he didnt have the knowledge to give me an answer but would check and call me back.He was true to his word and said that it was simply a matter of changing the body type details on the V5 and sending it off to Swansea.What he said leads me to think that they don't actually get the V5 changed after doing the conversion and are just giving their opinion of what the procedure would be?Surely if they had an alternative way to re-register the details then the DVLA would just follow that procedure for anyone else that sends in their V5 for the same reason?
I intend to take the covers off the car next week to take the pics and get them sent off because I may be pre-empting the predicted outcome wrongly.

[LouiseM]

A couple of years ago when I was considering converting a saloon I sought advice from a Minor restorer (not the one quoted here) and was advised that if the conversion had been done professionally a letter from the restorer confirming that it had been done professionally would be acceptable by the DVLA. No inspection would be required - it was simply a case of changing the details on the V5. However if the conversion had been done non-professionally eg by the owner themselves, an inspection would be required to ensure the safety of the vehicle.

In your earlier post you stated:

I can phone Charles Ware to say I'm thinking about buying one and need to know the situation as far as DVLA are concerned.

When you called them did you make it clear that you were intending to do a conversion yourself, or did you imply that you were interested in buying a car that they had converted? The response provided may well be correct in the case of a car that has been professionally converted but not correct in relation to one which has been converted yourself, hence the differing advice from the DVLA.

[bmcecosse]

I did try to warn you about all this - you were quite cheeky with me on the matter!! So it turns out I was correct after all? An apology would seem to be due..... I am genuinely sorry for your predicament - but as I said earlier - I did try to warn you......and indeed I pointed out that up to recently this sort of thing was accepted. But DVLA have clamped down on it - it will need the full IVA inspection. From the DVLA website - IVA is required if you " rebuild older cars with major changes ". And I suggest cutting the roof off is a ' major change'.......... And don't be surprised if it is declared to be so different that a Q reg is issued - and you will then need to pay Road Tax every year.. So the " £2000 " reg number will be lost. If I were you - I would back pedal madly and get the V5 back - and enjoy the car with roof in place....... It's not the 'chassis' they worry about - (Minor saloon/trav doesn't have a chassis) it's changes to the monocoque - and cutting the roof off is a very major change ! Good luck.

[LouiseM]

Without knowing the full details of what was said to whom, and what test the DVLA is actually referring to, I think it's a bit premature to assert who is correct and who isn't. There's been a lot of internet chat and 'scare stories' posted about the various VOSA tests, and I've yet to see a converted Minor on a Q plate, but I'm making some enquiries to find out the actual position so that messageboard members are provided with facts rather than supposition. I'll post up details when received.

[tysonn]

Thanks for the helpful comments LouiseM and I await your findings with interest.When I called Charles Ware I definitely said I was considering buying one of their kits not buying a converted car.In fact the conversion had already been done when I bought the car(parts had been purchased from ESM and the welding had been done professionally to a very high standard).So I'm pretty sure they were expecting me to do the registering.As I have said before I am not in any way being critical of Charles Ware.I plucked their phone number off the internet at random.I thought of maybe calling another of the Dealers that do the conversion on customers cars to see if they register the car once completed but didnt bother as its irrelevant in my case.

[LouiseM]

Update received from Rob Thomasson, the club Technical Tips guy, who is in frequent contact with the DVLA:

Because the Minor is not a monocoque but is unitary construction neither a Q plate or an inspection are required. We have this about once a year with DVLA and win every time.

So it's the advice provided by the DVLA which is incorrect, not that provided by CW. I'm sure there'll be some debate here about whether a Minor is or isn't a monocoque but the classification given by the DVLA is the issue here.

Tysonn - If you are a club member and continue to have problems with the DVLA about this contact Rob for assistance (his e-mail address & phone number are in Minor Matters).

[bmcecosse]

The saloon/traveller very much ARE monocoque construction. They were proud of it at the time !! The DVLA ruling has been given - and they run the rules..... I'll be surprised if the MMOC can win an exemption - but good luck with it!!