mini engine

[picky]

it is very useful if you are on a tight budget, and yes it covers forced induction, the bit im reading at the moment
machine shop and wods of cash are not required..

[Kevin]

I asume the Bhp figures mentioned are flywheel and not the actual measured Bhp at the rear wheels.
Now I have been told that its quite difficult for a standard car to actually reach the manufactures quoted Bhp because its done with the engine on a test rig and not on an actual car, which is why flywheel Bhp is a very grey area and even some rolling roads disagree on the way to measure it and the only correct test is in our case rear wheel Bhp which as a rough figure is 15% less than flywheel.
So if a 1098 starts at 45bhp in perfect condition in reality its around 38bhp.
And a 1275 starts at 65bhp in perfect order in reality its around 55bhp and this really only applies to the MG and the later Ital A+ engines.
So with a standard exhaust alloy inlet and 1 1/2" carb I dont see how a 1098cc is going to improve by 10bhp let alone 25bhp so that its more than the MG engine with better components and capacity throughout.
70bhp at the flywheel equates to 59bhp against the standard 38bhp and is a 55% increase at the wheels which I cant believe is possible without extensive reworking of the whole engine which is going to cost more than a few quid.
A question for Kirsten, you have a breathed on 1275 in your convertible set up on a dyno, what figures were you given from the dyno after it was set up correctly.

[JimK]

it is very useful if you are on a tight budget, and yes it covers forced induction, the bit im reading at the moment

I have a Ital A+ with Metro turbo on the way and I need to know how to set it all up.

machine shop and wods of cash are not required..

Glad to hear it, I might have to get a copy.

[Kevin]

machine shop and wods of cash are not required..

Well, I always thought that if supercharging or using turbos that if you dont want the engine to go bang you have to use lower compression pistons etc, if that doesn't involve a fair bit of cash, I don't know what does, and thats without the cost of the supercharger - £1,000 for a good fully working shorrock perhaps. And as for turbos, how much does a fully overhauled one of them cost?

[JimK]

£150 for an Eaton M45 from a new Mini. They are sealed and need no oil circuit.

You can change the pistons but I'm led to believe you can put a plate between the block and head and lower the CR that way. I'm going to start with low turbo pressure to see how it goes and avoid blowing anything (or shredding the axle at the first set of traffic lights).

[Kevin]

I'm led to believe you can put a plate between the block and head and lower the CR that way.

This is starting to sound a little specialised and not cheap.
I am no expert but will the modern type of turbo work with carbs as they are designed to work with fuel injection or is that not a problem.

[chrisd87]

I think 'GAS' on this board did the mini cooper supercharger conversion using a carb, so it must be possible.

70bhp from a 1098 sounds a bit optimistic - 65bhp sounds more like it but you'd need a decent exhaust. Maniflow ones cost nearly £270 the last time I checked.

[bmcecosse]

The Vizard book is absolutely the WORD - and much of the work can be done at home without fantastic equipment. The cost I mention assumes clever ebay skills - but is certainly possible. The power would of course be flywheel. Anyone seriously interested should PM me - like Jonathon i'm not giving away all my secrets on here!

[Onne]

15% off eh.. that means I have only got 23hp at the wheels!

[picky]

I got my eaton m45 for £90 obviously to have access to a machine shop and have all parts balanced before it goes together is best, but it is not absolutely necessary.

[bmcecosse]

The balancing etc is only necessary for high revs - not really a good idea with the 1098!

[picky]

i found out the hard way

[picky]

a company called http://www.vmaxscart.co.uk/ offers a kit to fit the eaton m45 supercharger to a mini, he can also provide a kit for inline engines such as the morris minor and presumably midgets etc aswell. This is what GAS has in his traveller. Im sure the kit is well worth the money but its a bit beyond my budget and im hoping to make a similar setup myself
thought this website would be useful to anyone considering going forced induction. The other obvious way of forced induction on the A series is of course garrett T3 turbo from an MG metro, which comes with an A series manifold simplifying setup slightly.

[Kevin]

And the point for me is thats its still not a cheap solution even using Vizards book as for the kit prices,

Parts: Supercharger, manifolds (inlet and exhaust),servo adapter,modified Hif44 carb ,k&n air filter, modified cylinder head ( 36x 29 race valves,bronze guides, double springs up to 25 cc hamber ) and if necessary a decompression plate to suit, throttle and choke cables, spark plugs, ARP cylinder stud set, gaskets, timing cover breather sealing plug, special ratchet spanner, new front pulley, belt and tensioner, nuts bolts,thermostat, hylomar sealant £1750
or
Budget kit 140s As obove but less head and carb. A suitable decompression plate is included, and the necessary parts to convert your HIF44 carb £1350

Its really boys toys time with a reasonable wallet reqd.

[picky]

I did not suggest that the supercharger kit was cheap. Also i believe that by fitting the supercharger myself I can do it for alot less. The supercharger kit is using brand new parts, which will always cost more than second hand parts.
using vizards book you can build a normally aspirated engine which will produce a fair bit more than standard, if you spend alot of your own time working on porting a good cylinder head and SU carb. If you buy all your parts on ebay then your costs are low.

[Kevin]

If you buy all your parts on ebay then your costs are low.

[quote
machine shop and wods of cash are not required..

I am not critising methods here just the costs involved, true you can shop around and gets some good buys from ebay and providing you have the skills,knowledge and tools required you will save quite a bit of money, but apart from reworking the head and carb there is the rebuild kit for the carb, new valves,springs & guides for the head and if doing it properly new hardened and recut seats which invoves a machine shop + the parts you will have to buy for a turbo, decompression plate etc + and other work the engine may require and then the cost of a rolling road to set it all up is still going to cost a tidy sum and what Jim was after was an economy priced job which this just wont be. This is why you come across half completed project ideas because the skills and costs were more than expected.
Vizards book is great but a lot of the work still involves workshop equipment and a fair bit of savvy.
This is of course just my own view and I wouldnt want somebody like Jim to think this can all be done for a couple of quid.

[KirstMin]

A question for Kirsten, you have a breathed on 1275 in your convertible set up on a dyno, what figures were you given from the dyno after it was set up correctly.

Hi Kevin, I was set up on a rolling road that read 86BHP. Not really sure how accurate these things are but the car runs well with good pulling power. However, it didn't cost me £40!

Ive got an A+ 1275 with the following:

Moorspeed stage 3 cylinder head - £350
Moorspeed pase 2 camshaft - £60
Gaskets, hylomer etc - £40
HIF 44 carb - new - £150
Falcon exhaust and alloy inlet etc - £200
needle - £8
Rolling road - £160

Total: approx £960

Now this was on top of a fully reconditioned engine (dont ask the price) and I managed 86BHP with 1275. Granted I used all new parts that I could have scavenged from ebay/scrapyard but having new parts on newly reconditioned was the best way to ensure I could get the car running nicely without needing to troubleshoot every week when one component after another failed!

This price also excludes the cost of removing the engine, taking it to pieces and rebuilding with the new camshaft (a necessity with a 1275). I was able to do this with a mate who had a barn and all the gear.

It’s laughable that £40 will increase you from 48 to 70 and in one afternoon on a 1098! hahahahah. To start with you'd need a new set of gaskets and engine oil which is more than half your budget gone already. You're lucky to get a HIF 44 or 38 on ebay for £20 and then you've got to scavenge a camshaft and MAKE your own exhaust system . Oh, and you need bigger valves and stronger springs for any head you are going to need to modify in the 30 minutes you have after tea.

I believe all these things grow on trees in Scotland - Iron brew makes a great plant food says my grandpa from Glasgow - but where I live they cost money and take a great deal more time to implement than an afternoon (that's 4 hours).

[Kevin]

but where I live they cost money and take a great deal more time to implement

Its the same where I am.
Was the Bhp wheels or flywheel or did they just quote the best figure as that will be the flywheel.

[clairedave]

we only asked about a 1275 engine!!! think we will stick to orignal 1098, and we have spare one of those too.thanks for any help tho x clairex

[picky]

i have not for one moment suggested that fitting a supercharger is a cheap upgrade, whether you fit it yourself or buy the kit. The reason i mentioned forced induction in the first place was because someone asked if vizards book covered it or not, and the fact that I am considering fitting a supercharger myself.