Could the Mosquito be back???!

[moggiethouable]

Vic Oak, copied to Alec Issigonis 14th October 1947.Memo entitled wide mosquito.
"Mr Tom Brown tells me that a side valve version of the 1100cc overhead camshaft engine would cost 30/- or £2.00 less than the original flat 4 1100 engine,.The present 8hp engine bored out to 950-980cc would cost even less."
He goes on to say
"I would like you to fit a wide mosquito with an 8hp engine bored out"
This is why the flat 4 engine was finally dropped and never reached production.

In 1956 Issigonis released a brochure to Leonard Lord george Harriman and the rest of the board entitled "A new concept in light car design" it is a critique of the V.W Bug.
The following point are pertinent.
1.Incorrect weight distribution with heavy loading at rear,causing oversteer.
2. Poor seating accomodation for length of vehicle.
3. Gear shift requires elaborate linkage to operate rear mounted gearbox.
4. Two seperate compartments for luggage space,minimises size of luggage and adds to the inconvenience of stowing.
5. Poor ramp angle at rear due to over hang of engine.
6. Petrol tank mounted in vulnerable position if vehicle was involved in a crash.
7. Extra material required for heating and ventilation to be sure of car defrosting
He did not dislike the VW he hated it.
He is on record as saying
"if the public were all very intelligent people you wouldnt sell one Volkswagen Beetle"
Source....Issigonis by Gillian Bardsley.
Do some reading.?
If your interest is in the history of car manufacture generally I would recommend The motor makers by Martin Adeney, the leyland papers by Graham Turner and The motor car and politics by William Plowden.

The latter is perhaps the most difficult to find, Abe books on line is a good place to start.
Hope Ive been of service in filling the gaps for you.

[PrinceBira]

In reply to the comment about recreating a Mosquito, and it falling in half just like Disney's Herbie, only a fool would attempt it without much metalworking skill. A motor vehicle is made from lots of metal panels/pressings all welded together, and as long as the person knows how to weld properly and understands stresses/strains/loading stress points and the like, can handle sheet steel and knows how to put strength into a panel, then after the work is done views his work with a critical eye, then it should be fine, also this sort of work needs an independant eye to double check the work as well. I have been using a mig welder, sheet folder,etc,etc since 1975, when I worked as a special vehicle builder, making all sorts of individual vehicles, mini bus conversions, campers, single use vehicles and the like, all passing PSV, STA, and Tilt tests. Also I have done prototype work for Mercedes Benz Commercial, 207, 208, 307, 508, and 608 van structure/bodywork and so I think I am very well able to adapt a structually proven design like a Minor. In fact, by narrowing it a lot of the stress points will be lighter loaded than a normal car. My Traveller Hearse has been stretched by 42" and after the metal work was finished I had it tested for deflection, which is how they test bridges. It involved sitting the bare shell onto solid fixed supports -in this case axle stands- at the axle positions, and measuring (with a special dial guage) at the mid point between axles points from the underside of the car to a steel plate fixed to the floor, then loading the chassis with weights equal to the full load of a complete car, plus load and 50% more giving a safety factor of 50%, then measuring again. It had a deflection 3.1 mm !!!! and that was without the extra support of the timber, thats how the Minor shell was designed-to be as rigid as possible. What I was hoping for on this forum was some positive ideas, not all this negative rubbish, I am no fool, a little eccentric maybe, so come all you "enthusiasts", or have I offended you all by
1, saving a Traveller from the scrapper and making a unique Hearse,
2, proposing to save a MM from the scrapper and filling the gap in Minor history,
3, having the balls to talk about it publicly,
I am all for originality and also am very against turning good cars into customs/hot rods/drag cars etc, but at the moment there are still Minors being scrapped daily and if I can save some thats got to be good. There are hundreds of minors out there on 1275s,discs.servos,etc all going well and preserving our motoring heritage, don't knock it, just drive and enjoy.
I look forward to some positive interest

[jaekl]

I find this topic interesting and from this side of the pond, I say go for it. Minor ownership is all about individuality and having a project. It sounds like an interesting project. It may be of limited market value, but that doesn't matter if it's what you want. Are you going for the bench seat and column shift? When we started getting together as Minor enthusiatists, we found that there was a common activity done by most of us, which was drawing body modifications. The Minor yields itself to many variations. Few have actually performed such customizing, whereas you are just about ready to go and it is a historicaly significant variation and somewhat a tribute to a very talented designer and enginering team. The path of product development can be very difficult and any step along the way could have been "the one" without another "what about" thought sneaked in before management increases pressure for completion. In other words having a real example of what could have been puts what was in a different perspective. In this case mechanically the Minor may have been more advanced, but the handling may have been less so.

When do we see pictures of this hearse?

[PrinceBira]

In reply to Moggiethouable, many thanks for your interest, you have given me more book titles to find, you responses are just what I need, abjective, informative, well researched info and ideas, it makes one question things and leads to rechecking what you think you know also !!!.
In reply to Jaekl from the land across the pond, thanks for your encouragement. The hearse is nearly finished and when its on the road there are several magazines wanting to do an article on it, but Minor Mattters have been promised first go at it followed by The Classic Hearse Register here in the UK. If you email me (dsaupe@gmail.com) I will send pics so far. On the Moquito, there is no thought of finances on the prject either in cost of doing it or resale value, the overiding things are is it possible=yes, will it fill a gap=yes,will it generate interest=yes, but for me the biggest question is what will it handle like ???. That is why I want to put a flat four in it. It would be easy to install a standard sidevalve unit rather than hunt for a Jowett unit, but as Issigonis tried it with the far forward, low down flat engine, thats the way I think it should be done.
The hearse project was in my head for ten plus years, and it was very different to build than I ever expected, but that was all stored in my mind, with little research done, the Moquito, I have had that in my mind for 25 years, but I have written lots of notes and researched it as well as I could alone, but felt that as I am about to reach my 60th birthday, I need to get on with it and to do that I needed to "go public" for more info and ideas.

[PrinceBira]

Just a quick note on the Mozzy, column change, bench seat, 1100 flat four as per ex/sx/134 if I can find enough info on it

[PrinceBira]

I know, its me again. On the handling of Marinas, I had one saloon and two vans, the 1/2 ton van, I drove it 40 miles, overloaded with a gererator set sticking out of the back, very light on the front, but with care it was fine, empty it was very good, no issues whatsoever, very underated. The Minor when launched was acclaimed for its handling, but that was just post war and what was available in the UK bore no comparison, 50mph was a good speed to be travelling at in a family saloon. The first mobile phones (transportables as they were called) weighed a ton, were huge, battery flat in twenty minutes, compare that to an Iphone or Galaxy and thats happend in half the time. A Minor, in its day was the real deal in its class. There can be no real comparison today, but if you uprate a Minor its well usable.
In 1972 I converted a lowlight (yes, a crime now ) to highlight, and fitted an engine/gearbox/rear axle from an A35, went well and handled ok, nowadays you would not chop about a lowlight but that was a long time back.

[MarkyB]

Adding the extra width to the car was it's making of the Minor, improved the handling no end apparently.
Very interesting project to take it back out again and you seem well qualified to do it.
I'm guessing it will be like a Ford E93A which have a tendency to fall over if cornered hard.

[IaininTenbury]

Adding the extra width to the car was it's making of the Minor, improved the handling no end apparently.
Very interesting project to take it back out again and you seem well qualified to do it.
I'm guessing it will be like a Ford E93A which have a tendency to fall over if cornered hard.

With smaller wheels and a much lower CoG (and suspension that wasn't 30 yrs out of date) hopefully it'd be much better than the Ford! Says inthe Skilleter book that the increase in stability after the widening was just a by product of the exercise not that there was any percieved issues with the narrow car.

[MarkyB]

I'm sure you are right, I looked up the width of both cars and the Ford is an inch wider!
I remember E93As being banger raced and many of them didn't make it round the first corner.

[PrinceBira]

More info needed please, ref Mosquito.
In Paul Skilleters book Morris Minor, he refers to the Minors design being influenced by the Packard Clipper, which troubles me a bit, I have studied a lot of pictured of the Clipper from the early Forties and can not really see where the Minor is influenced by it, but what I found looking at American cars is the Willys Coupe/Sedan of 39/40/41 bears more than a passing resembalnce to a Minor, or is it just me ?. Come on you people out there in Minor land, give me more info

[MarkyB]

Maybe hold a seance in a Morris and see if Issigonis shows up

[moggiethouable]

More info needed please, ref Mosquito.
In Paul Skilleters book Morris Minor, he refers to the Minors design being influenced by the Packard Clipper, which troubles me a bit, I have studied a lot of pictured of the Clipper from the early Forties and can not really see where the Minor is influenced by it, but what I found looking at American cars is the Willys Coupe/Sedan of 39/40/41 bears more than a passing resembalnce to a Minor, or is it just me ?. Come on you people out there in Minor land, give me more info

Youre kidding right?[frame][/frame]

[IaininTenbury]

The salient points being the rounded bulbous bonnet, the front wings continuing into the doors and the flare out at the bottom of the doors to the sills. the Willys has non of these and I can't offhand think of another American car which did prior to 1943 though my knowledge of american cars of that era is sketchy to say the least.