[b]Alloy weel crisis!!![/b]please please help!

Post by **bigginger** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 10:57 pm

Is that despite the fact that it used to be Ray's car, and that he knew it was going to be used and wasn't surprised to find that it was still the same one at the end?

Post by **rayofleamington** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 11:24 pm

And do you notice it's not the same Minor at the end as is shown at the start. They are very 'coy' about the number plate in the early shots. Obviously the original car was just too far gone and they used another

They changed 3 of the doors and the rear wings (maybe all the wings).
It was extremely much the correct car MAFF 830 in the early shots, even if they didn't show the plate. If you are not sure, I can send pictures, but hopefully we can leave it at that.
If you read the club mag, go back to the issue where they talked about it. Pete Morris talks about the car (certain things like 'reasonably well welded' <an enourmous compliment from Mr.Morris who is one of the best welders in the game> relate to the welding on the car that I sold to Bethan via Ebay. I wish my traveller was welded up half as good as that).

They also mention in the article about having a nightmare to get the wheels to fit properly! There's no surprise in that one then, as the wheels they used were ambitious for a Minor.
If you look carefully the hubs are not standard (new front disk conversion) therefore they had a full range of possibilities to get it done right.

The UK pimp my ride series is not to be confused with the dreadful bodge merchants of the American show!
Bethan's Minor was done to a far superior level, and if it hadn't been, then people with good reputations like Pete Morris surely wouldn't have touched it.

I cant think of a locating centre boss on a Minor that 'centres' the wheel, to do the job it would have to be a machined item. The protruding hub on the front is not machined or the same diameter to locate the wheel.

Yup! Therefore fitting huge alloys with low profile tyres on the standard hub is not something you can call 'robust'. Wider wheels are more likely to hit stuff, and the low profile tyre means a lot more shock load is transferred via the hub.
eg for the front, the 'simplest' way is to get the hubs converted to a modern footprint (not cheap) and the cheaper way is to get locating rings made that either fit the hub (hub would need to be machined true) or to get a ring that fits the inner centre bore of the drum.
The drum itself is spigoted to the hub, so it would be reasonably ok to use this as a location, but with a bigger tolerance stack up than getting an accurate machined o/d on the hub.

Post by SR » Thu Oct 20, 2005 6:09 am

u can actually buy spigot rings on ebay for this , although i would rather go to my local machine shop,steve

Post by **smethdog** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 8:05 pm

So it was pete morris that helped on the one featured. He would be the best person to talk to then, any body know how i could contact him?
And dont worry standard weels went back on the same night they fell of!

Post by **bmcecosse** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 8:22 pm

I bow to the specialist knowledge on the Pimp Minor - but why were they so coy with the number plate in the early shots - then showed them clearly at the end ?
But on the wheels centering thing - definitely wrong - Mini wheels and minor wheels DO NOT centre on the hubs - as I said earlier - if the centre hole is too small and wont clear the hub centre then there will be trouble as it 'balances' on there (saw this on mates MGB) - but provided the hole in the wheel is too big there will be no problems. I've checked both cars and there is clearance on both around the hub centres. The wheel is centred by the taper nuts pulling up evenly on the taper wells in the wheels - which is why it's important to do them all up evenly and progressively. The studs are simply in tension - all the other forces are taken by the frictional clamping of the wheel to the hub. There is just no way that spacers could possibly centre a wheel !

Post by **rayofleamington** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 8:26 pm

I bow to the specialist knowledge on the Pimp Minor - but why were they so coy with the number plate in the early shots - then showed them clearly at the end ?

I could never work that out either!! It was certainly my 'rough-looking' old car at the start - you can't fake that kind of aesthetic cackyness

Post by **rayofleamington** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 8:27 pm

So it was pete morris that helped on the one featured. He would be the best person to talk to then, any body know how i could contact him?

yeah - join the owners club and get his number out of the advert.....
;-)
01206 542039

Post by **smethdog** » Sun Oct 23, 2005 9:03 am

Already a member so will have a look thanx

Post by **bmcecosse** » Sun Oct 23, 2005 10:17 pm

But if it was put on the Ford disc conversion it would have different pcd then anyway. Was it maybe also a Ford back axle ? From watching the program I suspected they started with all good intentions - then found the original car was just too far gone - and substituted another - or maybe a fully 'reconned' bodyshell ?

Post by **Multiphonikks** » Sun Oct 23, 2005 10:20 pm

So - what you're saying is that you think the production company and MTV knowingly ringed a car? I know sometimes (from my breif experience of TV companies) that things are "rigged" sometimes, but transforming a car's ID?????????? :O :O :O :O :O :O

Post by **bigginger** » Sun Oct 23, 2005 10:42 pm

Nah, a telly company would rig ANYTHING! In this case, however, they quite clearly didn't. You could tell by using eyes, common sense, the professional reputations of the people who did the work, the fact that the current owner hasn't mentioned it and the fact that the last owner doesn't agree.

Post by **rayofleamington** » Sun Oct 23, 2005 11:58 pm

From watching the program I suspected they started with all good intentions - then found the original car was just too far gone - and substituted another - or maybe a fully 'reconned' bodyshell ?

If I hadn't known the car myself I would have come to the same conclusion. The shell itself was solid - the wings doors and interior all needed replacing (and the engine got replaced too!! but that was a while after the program and I heard it was needed after the radiator blocked - which seemed very unlucky as I think I had reverse flushed the engine, radiator and heater - although I had too many cars so maybe it wasn't that one).

Regarding locating the wheel centre bore - yopu seem to have mixed up comments relating to big alloys and standard wheels. Standard tyres are an 80 profile and pretty narrow and don't give problems with the standard hub arrangement. When changing to wide alloys with very low profile tyres, modification to the fitment if you want a robust solution!
To use an analogy - you can upgrade to a 120BHP engine and make it will 'fit' the original gearbox. The gearbox may not break immediately but it doesn't make it the right way to do it.

Post by **jonathon** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 8:12 am

I'd have thought that the disc kit was made for standard Minor PCD. The only other PCD available with this particular kit is Ford. I don't thing the rear axle was changed , and the standard ropey sounding motor was left in. There is only one Ford based disc kit available which offers a multitude of PCD's and it ain't the MMC Bath

Post by **Gareth** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 11:25 am

The Metro went over to the K-series, but the Mini soldiered on with an injection version of the A-series. I think it was the 1275, producing 62BHp. It would, according to an old issue of TopGear, wheeze up to 90mph.

Post by **KirstMin** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 4:06 pm

bmcecosse wrote:But on the wheels centering thing - definitely wrong - Mini wheels and minor wheels DO NOT centre on the hubs - as I said earlier - if the centre hole is too small and wont clear the hub centre then there will be trouble as it 'balances' on there (saw this on mates MGB) - but provided the hole in the wheel is too big there will be no problems. I've checked both cars and there is clearance on both around the hub centres. The wheel is centred by the taper nuts pulling up evenly on the taper wells in the wheels - which is why it's important to do them all up evenly and progressively. The studs are simply in tension - all the other forces are taken by the frictional clamping of the wheel to the hub. There is just no way that spacers could possibly centre a wheel !

Hello, I changed all 4 of my wheels yesterday - standard for minilites - and I concur with bmcecosse, there is no point where the centre hub is supporting the wheel. The wheels are drawn and centred onto the hub when you tighten the nuts. There is clear daylight between the hole in the wheel and the hub centre - no point of the hub centres offer any kind of support.

Maybe we are talking at cross-purposes though because its pretty obvious when you change a wheel.

Post by **jonathon** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 7:14 pm

Kirstmin,
You and BM are correct about the centerbore location on the moggy. However steel wheels are completly different to alloys in that the y almost allow the tapered wheel nut to contact the hub, when fully tightened. the amount of wheel that the studs need to support is about 3-5mm on the mounting flange. When fitting alloys the problem is that most alloys will have a minimum of 20mm of flange thickness, add to this the fact that the minor studs are really, a much smaller diameter than that intended by the wheel manufacturers. If you fitted sleeve nuts then the problem of the undersized studs becomes reduced but you still have the thickness of the wheel flange to contend with, hence most manufacturers who fit alloys will also provide the correct size of center bore to locate the wheel. You should not rely on the studs to both center and locate the wheel, they will not do the job, unless one or both of the above points are adhered to.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 9:19 pm

If they didn't 'ring' the car - then why do they hide the registration number in the early shots ? However - let's move on - where is the car now - is it still running ?

Post by **bigginger** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 9:21 pm

'They' clearly changed their mind about blanking the plate AFTER the editing/effects started.

Post by **KirstMin** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 11:20 am

jonathon wrote:You should not rely on the studs to both center and locate the wheel, they will not do the job, unless one or both of the above points are adhered to.

All I want to know is are the wheels that you supplied going to be safe on my minor (back)/marina (front) hubs?

I assume they are