Victor Reinz composite gasket

[Spritely]

I keep reading conflicting advice on fitting these gaskets (small bore for 948cc).
Should a sealant such as Wellseal or Loctite be used with these composite gaskets or should they be fitted dry?
This is so confusing!!
Thanks

[Spritely]

It’s a cylinder head gasket

[svenedin]

See here:https://www.victorreinz.com/EN/Service- ... spx?region

"When replacing a cylinder head gasket additional sealing compound is required only when explicitly specified by the manufacturer" so the answer is no, you should not use any additional sealant and install dry.

Stephen

[Spritely]

After much thought and faffing about I’ve decided to fit the gasket dry - is this the right decision, who knows!
Next issue is the tightening of the nuts.
Is this the correct procedure:-
Assemble everything and torque up the nuts. Do not add coolant.
Run engine till it’s hot then retention the nuts, back off 1/2 turn first then re torque - all while engine is still hot.
Let engine cool off, leave overnight. Back off nuts by half a turn then re torque.
Then add coolant and I’m ready to go.

[les]

I’ve never heard of running without coolant or backing off nuts before retightening and have never done either. Torque nuts in the correct order.

[myoldjalopy]

Where do people get these crazy ideas from?

[svenedin]

I think there are some strange ideas here.

Assuming you have the head off it would be a good idea to search this forum for the correct procedure to fit a new head gasket.

With the head off, take all the studs out so that you can clean the surface of the block properly. This is very important. You can take the studs out by locking two nuts together on the stud. Stuff blue workshop towel or kitchen paper into the bores to stop rubbish going in. Then clean the mating surface of the block with a green plastic kitchen scourer lubricated with WD40 or similar. Another useful tool for cleaning is a mounted Stanley knife blade such as used as a scraper to remove paint from windows or without this you can carefully remove stuck bits of old gasket with the blade just in your fingers (be careful). If the blade catches around the stud holes then there are "pulled up" threads. This can cause the gasket to fail to seal and you should lightly countersink the pulled up threads. Use an electric drill with a countersinking bit on low speed and grease which will catch any swarf.

When you have the top of the block spotless do the same to the mating surface of the cylinder head and the side where the manifold gasket sits. Ideally, check for flatness with a proper straight edge. A metal rule is not a proper straight edge but is better than nothing. Unless the engine seriously overheated it is probably fine. Cast iron blocks and heads do not distort easily like alloy ones do.

You can remove (de-coke) the crowns of the pistons if necessary but leave a ring of carbon around the circumference as this can help create a better seal. Remove coke from cylinder head combustion chamber. Ensure there is no debris in the bores. If wanted or necessary this is an opportunity to renew valve stem oil seals, lap in valves etc.

Before refitting the studs, remove debris from the holes. It is important to clean any oil or grease out of the holes. In theory, if the hole had a pool of oil in it, the block could hydraulically crack when the stud is tightened. If any of the studs does not thread well, clean the threads with a thread tap.

Now you are finally ready to fit the gasket. Like decorating, the job is all in the preparation.

Copper gaskets are fitted copper side up. Some people fit them with a sparing smear of grease both sides others say fit dry. You are fitting a composite gasket so do not grease it. Fit the gasket writing side up. Give a final check that the gasket fits correctly and that none of the water channels or oil ways are blocked by the gasket.

Inspect, renew the bypass hose.

Carefully fit the head. Replace the pushrods exactly as they came out (you put them in a piece of card labelled 1 to 8 didn't you!). Replace the rocker gear slackening off the rocker arm adjusters as needed.

Follow the tightening sequence as shown in the workshop manual using a torque wrench. I go round several times just to be sure. Remember to fit the engine steady bracket and heater metal pipe as this goes under the head studs (1098cc).

Take the spark plugs out if not removed already. Set the rocker clearances. Removing the spark plugs removes the compression making it easy to turn over the engine with the starting handle. use the rule of 9. Clean, gap the plugs or renew but gap new plugs as they are never right.

Renew the manifold gasket. Fit manifold, torque correctly. Fit/check exhaust.

You should be ready for starting! Re-connect battery. For composite gaskets and for copper gaskets the advice is a bit different. `For copper ones you can now fill with water and start the engine. For composite which have some kind of heat activated adhesive the advice is to start the engine without water and run for a short time of a minute or two to activate the adhesive. You should follow the manufacturer or suppliers instructions.

After the first heat cycle re-torque according to the workshop manual sequence. No backing off! This is absolutely wrong and will cause the gasket to leak. After re-torque check the rocker clearances again. After 100 miles check and re-torque again and check rocker clearances once more.

Happy motoring,


Stephen

[Spritely]

Stephen
Thank you.

This is so confusing but here is my revised plan of action:

Fit gasket dry.
Torque all nuts to required torque in order as shown in manual. Set tappet clearance.
Do not fill with coolant.
Run engine till it’s hot.
Do not loosen nuts but just re torque them while engine is still hot. Check tappet clearance
Leave overnight to cool off then re torque again, not backing off, and check tappet clearance.
Fill with coolant.
Run for about 100 miles then re torque again, not backing off, and check tappet clearance.

I’m sure things shouldn’t be this complicated!!

Les

[svenedin]

Stephen
Thank you.

This is so confusing but here is my revised plan of action:

Fit gasket dry.
Torque all nuts to required torque in order as shown in manual. Set tappet clearance.
Do not fill with coolant.
Run engine till it’s hot.
Do not loosen nuts but just re torque them while engine is still hot. Check tappet clearance
Leave overnight to cool off then re torque again, not backing off, and check tappet clearance.
Fill with coolant.
Run for about 100 miles then re torque again, not backing off, and check tappet clearance.

I’m sure things shouldn’t be this complicated!!

Les

Les,

It's not complicated really.

Torque the head down, set the tappet clearances. Run the engine just for a minute, literally 60 seconds. Do NOT run it until it is hot as there is no coolant in the engine. Allow the engine to cool then re-torque, do not back the head nuts off. Re-check the rocker clearances. That's it until 100 miles. Not complicated! Nothing is torqued or set when the engine is hot, it's done cold. The only reason for a brief run without coolant is to help a composite gasket to stick IF it has an adhesive built-in to it and to be perfectly honest, I am not convinced the gasket you are using does! As I said, look at the manufacturer's instructions or contact the supplier. If the manufacturer says there is no need for a brief run of the engine without coolant then torque down the head, set the rocker clearances, fill with coolant and run the engine until properly hot. Allow to cool until cold, re-torque, re-set rocker clearances and that's it until you have driven 100 miles or so.

Stephen

[philthehill]

There is plenty of information on the Victor Reinze web site as regards fitting composite head gaskets.
https://www.victorreinz.com/EN/Victor-Reinz-Home.aspx
Personally I would just use a plain copper gasket instead of a composite gasket. I had a very expensive composite gasket fitted to my 1380cc 'A' Series and it did work well but when I changed the camshaft I fitted a Payen gasket Pt No: AF460 from Mini Spares which worked just as well and was so much cheaper. Expensive is not always better!!

[philthehill]

As mentioned above - there is plenty of information on the Victor Reinze web site as regards fitting composite head gaskets.
https://www.victorreinz.com/EN/Victor-Reinz-Home.aspx
Personally I would just use a plain copper gasket instead of a composite gasket. I had a very expensive composite gasket fitted to my 1380cc 'A' Series and it did work well but when I changed the camshaft I fitted a Payen gasket Pt No: AF460 from Mini Spares which worked just as well and was so much cheaper. Expensive is not always better!!
Below is the later and revised tightening sequence of the head studs for the 'A' Series engine

head stud tightening.jpg (1.77 MiB) Viewed 15563 times

[Spritely]

From what I can gather the Victor Reinz composite head gasket (part no: 61-35330-00) does not have a sticky adhesive on its surface. Instead, the surface has a special dry coating (or impregnation). This coating stops the gasket from soaking up oil and water.
Therefore do I run it without coolant initially to get hot or fill it after installation?
My thoughts now are to fit the gasket, torque the nuts, fill with coolant, get it up to temperature, let it cool then re torque again.
The Victor Reinz website is not very helpful unless I’m missing something and there are no instructions with the gasket.

[svenedin]

From what I can gather the Victor Reinz composite head gasket (part no: 61-35330-00) does not have a sticky adhesive on its surface. Instead, the surface has a special dry coating (or impregnation). This coating stops the gasket from soaking up oil and water.
Therefore do I run it without coolant initially to get hot or fill it after installation?
My thoughts now are to fit the gasket, torque the nuts, fill with coolant, get it up to temperature, let it cool then re torque again.
The Victor Reinz website is not very helpful unless I’m missing something and there are no instructions with the gasket.

Ok. In that case yes, torque it all down using the sequence in Phill's post above, set the rocker clearances. When all torqued down (and do remember the bypass hose will need the clips done up), fill with water, then start the engine. Allow to reach normal operating temperature then turn off and leave it until it's cold. When cold go around and re-torque, check the rocker clearance once more, check the coolant level and go out and drive it! Happy motoring.

Stephen

[Spritely]

When I say fill up coolant, that is antifreeze mixture.

[svenedin]

When I say fill up coolant, that is antifreeze mixture.

It's up to you. Personally, from experience of jobs that haven't gone entirely to plan, I tend to fill up with the plain water. Then if there's an unexpected leak it is only water leaking out. It can be as simple as a hose clip not tight enough. When the engine has done a heat cycle and I am happy, I drain out the water and fill with the final mixture. Most people use tap water but the water is very hard where I live so I use distilled water. It seems to keep the coolant rust free.

Stephen

[Spritely]

Assembled everything with new gasket.
Noticed that one of the studs was about 2-3 mm higher than the rest.
So decided to strip it all - as you do!
All the stud holes are through holes, going into the water chamber in the block. The stud that was high had a blind hole, the bottom was not metal though but just crud that had built up. I have a spare (Goldseal) block and all the holes are through holes. So I ran a tap down the hole, there was no resistance and the crud was removed.
Assembled it all again and studs are all the same height - happy with that.
However after running upto temperature with coolant in noticed that on this particular stud there was water seeping out of the top of the nut!! Why ?
This job is really doing my head in, it should be straight forward.
Any ideas as to why there is water getting past the nut.
Thanks
Les

[svenedin]

On of the studs is slightly longer or should be. It's the one that the engine steady bracket attaches to at the back.

It's not at all unusual to have water leak past the studs on the thermostat housing. This happened to me. The solution is to use a sealant on the threads that go into the block (or in the case of thermostat studs, the head). I'm sure lots of sealants would work but the one I used was Permatex thread sealant. Very good stuff. Drain the coolant below the top of the block, take the leaking stud out. Put sealant on the coarse threads that go into the block, re-fit, re-torque. Try that. It's not a big deal and fixed in 10 minutes.

Stephen

[Spritely]

Thanks Stephen
It’s the second stud from the front.
I have high tensile studs (although not ARP), these are screwed in hand tight as per instructions.
Guess I could put sealant on the thread but it’s another strip down and more new gaskets!
But why is it just this one as all the threaded holes are through holes.
Could it be because I put a tap down the hole then the thread is lovely and clean where as the others are old. But then again when new all the threads would be clean.
This is becoming a never ending job!!

[svenedin]

Thanks Stephen
It’s the second stud from the front.
I have high tensile studs (although not ARP), these are screwed in hand tight as per instructions.
Guess I could put sealant on the thread but it’s another strip down and more new gaskets!
But why is it just this one as all the threaded holes are through holes.
Could it be because I put a tap down the hole then the thread is lovely and clean where as the others are old. But then again when new all the threads would be clean.
This is becoming a never ending job!!

Why did it leak? As you say, it was full of crud which presumably stopped it leaking. No there's no need to strip it all down for 1 stud. Drain the coolant below the level of the top of the block and just take that one stud out. Put sealant on the threads, refit it, let it set for an hour or so, re-torque and fill back up with the coolant you drained off. Off you go. Remember that to change the thermostat on a later 1098 with the heater pipe going across the thermostat housing needs two, not one head nuts taken off. It's not an issue providing the engine is cold and you've partially drained the coolant.

Stephen

[Spritely]

It’s a cylinder head stud, not sure I can take just one stud out?