Advice please - should I take it back to the bodyshop?

[jonathon]

It sound very tempting Pete!!!!

[aupickup]

not all farms are like that !!!!!!!

[jonathon]

Doh!!!!

[aupickup]

i work from a farm unit, and where i am the farm does come under inspection, you can not do just what you like ( legally)

[plastic_orange]

Oh really!!!!

[jonathon]

Now I'm confused!!!!!!!

[KirstMin]

Hi Jonathon - 4-6 coats, that sounds 4-6 times what I have on my car!! I tested today and can rub away the top coat with a cutting compound and cloth (by hand) in no time at all - I dare not touch any of it with 2000 grit as that goes through in a few strokes. I was hoping to cut back the whole car because I also notice the dredded 'orange peel' finish. There is no way this is going to be possible - ill need a re-spay if I do.

Anyway, I am going back and my list grows - Today I noticed a faint spray of traf blue all over my new front grill and my rear wheels. That is not great! But I will remain hopeful that they will rectify this when I meet with them again.

thanks everyone for the advice.

[aupickup]

good luck
you paid for a professional job to be done, and you have not got it.
this can not be right.

demand they rectify, or take them to court, this country is full of guys like this that just want to rip off customers, and not just the car trade.

i am by defination a master craftsman making purpose made joinery, mainly staircases, and i might add i am very proud of it, also i do a professional job and give very good service.

do not bow down or mambi pambi these sort of guys.demand a professional job to be done, or tell them you will go elsewhere to have it done at their expense.
you must give them an option to rectify.

have you paid for the work yet

[jonathon]

Most bodyshops will only give you two coats of top coat,as on modern cars the paint is not the preservative coat, but only a colour up.The corrosion resistance is created by either zinc rich paint or galv. Most new cars are not even coloured on the inside bodywork where it is hidden by carpets and trin, even the inside and underside of the doors seldome get a top coat. I was involved in a dispute between a minor owner and a minor specialist wher the paintwork was substandard, when questioned about the prep for paint they admitted that they never painted the inside of wings but only covered the existing black prime coat with waxoil,an only gave two layers of top coat. No wonder then that the paint was peeling off and the new wing rusty after only 3 months. I would advise that when approaching a bodyshop you not only need to view examples of their work but also ask for a break down of their paint/prep proceedure. It has been said on this forum that a good respray can be bought for £1,000, I would challenge this assumption and the quality of the job you will end up with. Doing the job properly,not only with bodywork and mechanics and mods cost. So if you are offered a bargain rate or cost walk away. You get exactly what you pay for.

[brixtonmorris]

bare metaling a car is not a good idea. (sounds like matt's found that out).
neither is using 2 pack, for your lungs, and the morris.

[jonathon]

Brixtonmorris, what's wrong with bare metaling and you shouldn't be breathing in 2 pack if wearing the correct gear

[brixtonmorris]

ask matt.
your giving it out to poeple to touch up. do they have the correct equipment?

[jonathon]

I realise Matt has had problems, but this would appear to be the fault of poor preparation not bare metalling. The paint we give to our customers is definately not for use with a spray gun,and is intended for tipping in stone chips etc only. Customers we have are from far and wide and they appreciate having a paint mix the same as their respray, just incase they require a more local company to repair or spray an area of the car in the correct approved manner.
If you do not bare metal how can you determine the state of the steel beneath the paint. I've just shot blasted a convertable which showed signs of rust in the engine bay, when using the blast gun the whole bulkhead was riddled with unseen rust. Surely it would have been negligent not to bare metal and have an expensive respray ruined.

[chickenjohn]

Hi Jonathon - 4-6 coats, that sounds 4-6 times what I have on my car!! I tested today and can rub away the top coat with a cutting compound and cloth (by hand) in no time at all - I dare not touch any of it with 2000 grit as that goes through in a few strokes. I was hoping to cut back the whole car because I also notice the dredded 'orange peel' finish. There is no way this is going to be possible - ill need a re-spay if I do.

Anyway, I am going back and my list grows - Today I noticed a faint spray of traf blue all over my new front grill and my rear wheels. That is not great! But I will remain hopeful that they will rectify this when I meet with them again.

thanks everyone for the advice.

From what you've said, this is truly shocking for a £350 professional job, I really do think that a far better, and durable result could have been achieved at home with spray cans of cellulose!!!

[brixtonmorris]

the factory placed that paint on so long ago, why would some one need to take it off? it has been primed and sealed by professionals so long ago, and is doing a good job, even to this day. you're destroying a 30/40 year bond. why would you need to see whats between it? surely if its still there it must be good to lay a coat of paint on top, you already have a perfect base to lay your new coat on top. You only need to bear metal the 'rusty bits'. You're removing all that lovely red oxide paint applied by morris.
As to the little bits that are lurking under the paint, well that paint is not attached to the metel, so a little sand and that paint will come off very easily. The surface rust detaches the paint from the body. The rust you found was probalby caused by someone else bare metaling in the past.

As for 2 pac. it was never on a morris so why are you putting it on, its a quick cheap fix, that's why it was developed, by the car industry to get a good shiny finish without any effort. and it is causing many problems to the purists when they want their car restored to original. celli will never be discontinued in the near future, there are too many classic cars around the world that need it, (the good ones). 2 pac classics just dont look right. (looks great on my Ducati though).

Funny how 2 pac turned out to be more danergouros to your health and the enviroment. so now it is going to be stopped. I think there is a new water based 2 pac being used now. (i dont use 2 pac so i dont know).
the fact is once steel is exposed to oxygen it oxidises so the rust has started.

ps. so dont get a bucket of water to wash your paint stripper off!

Kirstmin, this bare metaling is the reason why you have such thin paint.

[chickenjohn]

Brixton is right, the isocyanates given off by two pack are far more toxic than the solvents given off by Cellulose paint, and if as he says you only paint the bits of the car that need painting (rusty repaired areas) then you need to use far less paint than painting the whole car in several coats, so less pollutants into the atmosphere.

Coach enamel is still available for the vintage/veteran cars so I hope Celly will be as well.

Brixton, I'm still seriously considering getting a spray gun and compressor (I've got the catalogue you reccomended) what is your source for saying that celly will not be phased out? I'd like to know that the paint will still be available before i splash out £100's on spray kit.

[Matt]

bare metaling a car is not a good idea. (sounds like matt's found that out).

I assume you mean on the traveller.... it was filled over rust and then painted with 2 pack (super budget job) which we didn't realise when we bought it so it completely rotted out.

[jonathon]

The reason for taking a car back to bare metal is three fold,one the company who are respraying can give a warranty on their work knowing full well the process they have performed. Two, you cannot tell what is under the original paint unless it is fully removed. as I mentioned before the car we have just stripped was rusty beneath the original paintwork,you could not see surface rust nor any indication of tin worm, when the paint was blasted off the amount of rust prevalant was amazing. The last reason for removal of paint to bare metal is if any filler needs to be applied to damaged areas, as any reputable paintshop will know you do not fill onto cellulose then repaint as you run a high risk of paint sinking. This is when the top new paint reactivates the layers beneath, if filler is evident then this will be affected and cause a patterned effect around the edge of the filled area. Cellulose is a great paint and I used to spray a lot of cars withit when I set up my bodyshop, however it is labour intensive, as the finish has to be produced, ie polished to a shine. Nothing wrong here though. Two pack is a different product yet has many similarities depending on how you use it and the required level of finish. For most bodyshops two layers of top coat are enough, but as I have stated before the top coat on new cars is now only a layer of colour, as all of the rust inhibitors are in galvanising or zinc layers. This is why most door bottoms and inside panels have no paint colour on them.We tend to use two pack in the same way as cellulose, by applying upto 6 layers of top coat,then flatting with wet 2000 and final D/A sanding, wet with 3000 grit discs. This surface is then cut to a shine and then machine polished. The final process is to hand polish the full car. The result a finish as smooth as a babies whatsit and a colour with endless depth. You would not tell the difference between this two pack finish and a cellulose one. The plasticy look of two pack is only evident in its raw state, when cut and polished the two are indestinguishable.
Two pack has toxic properties but toxic is toxic there are no increments. The thinners in both two pack and cellulose are very harmfull and just because cellulose does not carry the fear factor of two pack it is still dangerous and should really only be sprayed where the correct breathing and filtration systems are present. Remember if you can smell the paint then its already in your lungs. If my neighbour were to start spraying his car in his garage and I could smell it I would certainly object very strongly. My kids should not be subject to these, professional use, chemicals just because someone thinks its safe as its what was original to the car. If you want your car sprayed in cellulose your local good bodyshop should be able to oblige, but it will not be cheap.
I think some credit should be given to the paint industry here as they are excellent products available to rust proof and prime your classics every bit as good as the original factory efforts.