Sparkplug "caps".

[Mervin]

Just looking for opinions on this. My car has standard c.b. points distributor, 25D4 (Dist. Doc. refurb.), NGK BP6ES plugs and copper core h.t. leads.
Is it wiser/recommended to use plug caps with a resitance or, as used on my h.t. leads, no resitance?

[King Kenny]

I don't think that the resistor is necessary in this day and age. The whole point of it ( so I believe) was to stop radio and television interference. Those of us of an age will remember the old cathode ray televisions and would get annoyed when the neighbour started his car up. Crackling and white bars would distort the picture. If I am wrong someone will put us right.
I use NGK BP6RES..

[svenedin]

I don't think that the resistor is necessary in this day and age. The whole point of it ( so I believe) was to stop radio and television interference. Those of us of an age will remember the old cathode ray televisions and would get annoyed when the neighbour started his car up. Crackling and white bars would distort the picture. If I am wrong someone will put us right.
I use NGK BP6RES..

You are using resistive plugs with BP6RES

You can use resistive spark plugs or resistive spark plug caps or resistive leads. You can't have multiple resistors in the HT system.

Stephen

[Mervin]

Thanks both. I will leave things as they are.
I was about to correct you Stephen when you wrote that I was using resistive plugs. Then realised you were referring to Kenny and BP6RES plugs.

[geoberni]

Just looking for opinions on this. My car has standard c.b. points distributor, 25D4 (Dist. Doc. refurb.), NGK BP6ES plugs and copper core h.t. leads.
Is it wiser/recommended to use plug caps with a resitance or, as used on my h.t. leads, no resitance?

As Stephen says, one resistor or the other. The majority of vehicles use carbon leads these days, but if you're using Copper Leads and non resistive plugs, then you are probably causing some interference somewhere. It's just that you have never noticed it.
You might pull up next to someone listening to an AM Radio station and they'll hear your Ign clicking, wondering what it is....

This webpage is quite informative about interference. There's a lot of potential sources...
https://www.howacarworks.com/accessorie ... terference

[Mervin]

"You might pull up next to someone listening to an AM Radio station"
Do people still listen to AM radio? The old Philips radio (positive earth) in my car does have AM/LW, but the radio was converted by replacing LW with FM some years ago. Some place in Sale, near Manchester did it.
I have tried the AM but don't hear any interference with the engine running.

[geoberni]

"You might pull up next to someone listening to an AM Radio station"
Do people still listen to AM radio? The old Philips radio (positive earth) in my car does have AM/LW, but the radio was converted by replacing LW with FM some years ago. Some place in Sale, near Manchester did it.
I have tried the AM but don't hear any interference with the engine running.

Some exclusively AM stations are Sport/Talk Stations; Radio 5 Live and Talk Sport immediately come to mind.

[svenedin]

My own set up is copper core HT leads and Champion resistive plug caps. I have a side entry distributor cap on a Lucas 25D distributor. This makes it very easy to replace the HT leads and to have the HT leads the right length. You can buy the HT lead by the metre and make up your own set. The only lead that needs crimped on connectors is the king lead. Make sure the king lead is of the same type as the HT leads to the spark plugs (e.g resistive or not resistive as appropriate).

Stephen

[Mervin]

Same here Stephen, side entry cap. Copper core, of the correct diameter to fit into the cap. Bought by the metre and sufficient to make the leads to the exact desired length.

[svenedin]

Same here Stephen, side entry cap. Copper core, of the correct diameter to fit into the cap. Bought by the metre and sufficient to make the leads to the exact desired length.

Yes it makes for a neat installation. The copper core cable lasts a long time and is available with a braided outer cover in fancy colours and designs, as well as black PVC if you fancy a bit of jazzing up of the engine bay. It should be noted that copper core cable is not recommended with certain electronic ignition systems, but is fine with others so always check the instructions. I used 7mm diameter cable and screw on spark plug caps. I do have the tools to crimp on HT lead connectors as well although it can be done with careful use of pliers.

Stephen

[Nickol]

I was going to ask a question on a new thread but this one is most appropriate to tack on to.

Having reset the timing on the distributor , went for a test drive and going up hill ( where I live we only have hills either up or down) the pinking syndrome appeared. So I stopped at the brow of the hill opened up the bonnet and with the engine still on tickover went to adjust the knurled wheel to retard the ignition a bit. As my naked hand neared the distributor cap, I got a hefty electric shock.

My question is if this is a normal occurrance or is it a sign of high tension leakage? If so I can of course replace the cap and cables but I wanted to know if it is really necessary. The engine does run relatively smoothly but I do feel it is not quite as smooth on tickover it should be.

The other query I have , not quite topic related, is using a strobe light timing gun - not easy with a minor. If you set up the static timing per the book ( in my case with a 1098 engine, 3° BTDC ) and then advance the timing based on road test experience until pinking occurs, what advantage would a strobe light bring?

[svenedin]

I was going to ask a question on a new thread but this one is most appropriate to tack on to.

Having reset the timing on the distributor , went for a test drive and going up hill ( where I live we only have hills either up or down) the pinking syndrome appeared. So I stopped at the brow of the hill opened up the bonnet and with the engine still on tickover went to adjust the knurled wheel to retard the ignition a bit. As my naked hand neared the distributor cap, I got a hefty electric shock.

My question is if this is a normal occurrance or is it a sign of high tension leakage? If so I can of course replace the cap and cables but I wanted to know if it is really necessary. The engine does run relatively smoothly but I do feel it is not quite as smooth on tickover it should be.

The other query I have , not quite topic related, is using a strobe light timing gun - not easy with a minor. If you set up the static timing per the book ( in my case with a 1098 engine, 3° BTDC ) and then advance the timing based on road test experience until pinking occurs, what advantage would a strobe light bring?

I sympathise. It gives quite a jolt a high voltage shock!

In theory, no you should not get an electric shock unless you touched an uninsulated part of the HT system. My Morris used to have HT leads with metal spark plug connectors and no rubber insulators (this was standard at one time) and I got some hefty shocks. If a rubber insulating boot is not properly in place or damaged then you can get a shock from the metal crimp connector.

The advantage of a strobe is to set the basic timing and have a starting point and to check that the maximum advance is not exceeded. It also enables you to see that the centrifugal advance and vacuum advance is working. I find it reassuring just to check I am not way off with the timing as pinking can be subtle. The book values are conservative and based on poor quality fuels with low octane ratings that were available when the workshop manual was written. Those values are safe and there is no harm in just using those values but the ignition can be advanced more if desired with road tests.


Stephen

[Nickol]

Thankyou Stephen for the blitz reply. Now I understand the strobe light advantage!

I have no exposed uninsulated parts around the distributor cap, just solid cable of some kind - no idea whether they are copper or whatever. All are push fit top mounted on the cap. Are there special good quality ones available?

[svenedin]

Thankyou Stephen for the blitz reply. Now I understand the strobe light advantage!

I have no exposed uninsulated parts around the distributor cap, just solid cable of some kind - no idea whether they are copper or whatever. All are push fit top mounted on the cap. Are there special good quality ones available?

Yes there are best quality distributor caps available from Distributor Doctor. These are noticeably better than the standard offerings. The insulation of HT cables can break down if they are very old.

Stephen

[Mervin]

Re strobe light and the location of the timing position markers on the timing chain cover.
I paint the pointers and the crankshaft pulley dimple white and rather than lie on the floor, under the car where the marks are hardly accessible, without lifting the front of the car, I view from the top with a mirror on the floor. Aim the strobe light at the mirror with the marks visible and be aware it's a mirror image!
Any adjustments can be made without crawling out from under and then rechecking. Obviously be careful of moving parts, e.g. fanblade, when aiming the timing light.
It wasn't the best idea situating the timing marks where they are.

[Bill_qaz]

Another option is to statically position using bottom marks and paint new ones visible from above to use the timing light.

[svenedin]

Or you can fit a later timing chain cover from an A+ engine which has the timing marks above. This is more involved and as well as making a new timing mark on the standard pulley, it would need the engine front plate drilled for the additional bolts. You could do this as part of a bigger job to add a timing chain tensioner, damper type crankshaft pulley etc.

Stephen

[Nickol]

Another option is to statically position using bottom marks and paint new ones visible from above to use the timing light.

Great idea, thankyou Bill. I have now done this. I made a steel pointer and fixed it to the timing chain cover using neo-mod high power magnets. These work extremely well and later I forgot to remove the pointer before doing a test drive and it still did not move! Anyway, having put the flywheel to TDC underneath I could then paint a mark aligning to the new pointer.

Today I got this proper strobe light as per AC Dodd recomendation https://youtu.be/0WbP9k2VDUU. Having connected it up and starting the engine at ca 1000 revs, vacuum disconnected, despite correct static timing, the strobe have me ca 21° BTDC. How can this be? So I turned the distributor anti clockwise until 3° BTDC was obtained. It needed to go around a lot and the engine did keep running albeit bumpy.

At the moment the "tuning" is not completed as it was late and also I could not get a proper dwell angle reading - I had connected the strobe probe to the wrong coil terminal I discovered later. I have mistakedly played around with the points gap so will correct that tomorrow, get a proper dwell angle reading and see what the result is. I have been checking the position of other 1098 Minors distributors and sure enough, they match what I now have, i.e the vacuum is almost vertical.

I think this is progress but am not really sure.

[svenedin]

I would bring the revs down to about 700 rpm. Make sure you connect the sensor to the correct HT lead, it must be the lead to spark plug number 1 which is nearest the radiator.

Stephen

[Bill_qaz]

Another option is to statically position using bottom marks and paint new ones visible from above to use the timing light.

Great idea, thankyou Bill. I have now done this. I made a steel pointer and fixed it to the timing chain cover using neo-mod high power magnets. These work extremely well and later I forgot to remove the pointer before doing a test drive and it still did not move! Anyway, having put the flywheel to TDC underneath I could then paint a mark aligning to the new pointer.

Today I got this proper strobe light as per AC Dodd recomendation https://youtu.be/0WbP9k2VDUU. Having connected it up and starting the engine at ca 1000 revs, vacuum disconnected, despite correct static timing, the strobe have me ca 21° BTDC. How can this be? So I turned the distributor anti clockwise until 3° BTDC was obtained. It needed to go around a lot and the engine did keep running albeit bumpy.

At the moment the "tuning" is not completed as it was late and also I could not get a proper dwell angle reading - I had connected the strobe probe to the wrong coil terminal I discovered later. I have mistakedly played around with the points gap so will correct that tomorrow, get a proper dwell angle reading and see what the result is. I have been checking the position of other 1098 Minors distributors and sure enough, they match what I now have, i.e the vacuum is almost vertical.

I think this is progress but am not really sure.

Glad you found it helpful. Yes my vacuum advance point upwards and No1 is top front as you look at distributor. I would advise don't change multiple thing at once work through one at a time.
In honesty I've never checked mine despite owning a timing light.
Its starts first time every time even after winter lie up. I have never heard any pinking when going up hills. So "if its not broke don't fix it" but it does have electronic ignition so no points to worry about.
Hope you get it running to your satisfaction.
Don't forget to check your valve clearances, which can also effect performance