Indicators, but not the usual problem!

[svenedin]

I don't understand it either but in my case it doesn't take much to get me confused as electrics are not my field at all. Those Lucas FL5 lookalike electronic flasher units are absolutely useless on my POS earth car. I tried the replacement sent from ESM last night and whilst it flashes the external bulbs perfectly, the tell tale on the indicator stalk flashes so incredibly dimly I can barely see it even in the dark. Swapping back to a thermal FL5 and everything works perfectly. Anyway, this thread is not about my car! I suppose what I am saying is nothing would really surprise me regarding the quality of these units.

Stephen

[microbill55]

Hello, well the good news first. I think that by a little guidance and a lot of luck on my part the issue seems to be resolved.
The car is up on very secure blocks and the wheels are off, for brake work, now complete, so it was the perfect opportunity to carry out the static tests that have been suggested.
As per a previous post, I have installed hazards using a known thermal 98W flasher can. I had bought a 98W electronic flasher some weeks before for this, so it was now surplus. Following the suggestion about earthing the flasher unit, I noticed that this electronic surplus can had an earth terminal as well as X,L,P.
I installed it expecting it to flash double time, however, it didn't.
On revving the car up and holding the revs, there was no change!
I took voltage readings at the battery (14.28v), the X terminal (14.15v). I changed to A.C. and got a steady reading of 30.5 on the 200v A.C. scale. This means absolutely nothing to me, but may be of interest to Bernie.
The hazards flash slightly slower than the (now functioning) indicators, which flash within the correct rate and both are seemingly unaffected by high or low revs - result!!
Of course I have yet to do a road test, which I'll try to do tomorrow.
I'll let you know the result.
I'll try to post a photo of the flasher unit, but it doesn't seem to work at the moment.
Thanks to all the input from everyone as I couldn't have got there on my own.
Regards Bill

[microbill55]

Photo

[svenedin]

Good news!

So just to confirm, you have fitted an electronic flasher unit which also has a separate earth connection and it works perfectly?

And, the hazards also work properly via a separate thermal flasher unit?

This tallies with my own experience of electronic flasher units in that they do not work properly unless the flasher unit is the type with a separate earth. Why this is the case, I have no idea but I have a suspicion that is something to do with how the tell-tale (pilot) bulb is wired in a Morris Minor.

Stephen

[geoberni]

I took voltage readings at the battery (14.28v), the X terminal (14.15v). I changed to A.C. and got a steady reading of 30.5 on the 200v A.C. scale. This means absolutely nothing to me, but may be of interest to Bernie.

Well I'm glad you seem to have sorted it.

I'm hoping that you misread the Multimeter, perhaps didn't notice that the range had changed to mV, because it should be under 100mV. On a modern car with so many electronic systems, it's typically under 50mV.
I've seen Youtube Videos by guys in vehicle workshops who do the Ripple Test and talk about 30v AC being 'Good', because they can't read the display....

As my Minor is on a Dynamo, I just went out and checked the reading on my 2010 Ford.
I have a quite fancy/expensive Clamp Meter that I managed to get at an autojumble for a good price, which also has a Min/Max Hold function.

It read 0.030V, or when I changed the scale and re-checked it, 35.5mV; which is what I expected, using the display Max Hold function.
.

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[Bill_qaz]

Photo

Bill, Just to clarify
So the electronic flasher unit pictured shows on marking it can be used as flasher or 4 way(hazard) and is a 4 pin with ground connection.
Is this what you originally fitted to the indicators but you didn't earth it? Is that the same unit that gave rapid flash speed when driving or is that a replacement?

[microbill55]

Stephen, you've got it exactly right in your description. I was getting to the stage of just fitting an adjustable flasher unit and setting the flash rate manually. I think they're normally used for hyper flash when using LEDs. Glad I don't have to do that.
Bernie, I must admit I just changed to the first A.C. segment on the very simple tester that I used, it could well have been mV.
Road test tomorrow, fingers crossed.
Regards Bill

[microbill55]

Sorry Bill our posts crossed. The unit in the photo was for the hazards that were recently fitted, but I managed to find a thermal 98W hazard relay, so I used that instead, so the one in the photo became a spare. It was pure chance that I decided to try it as a replacement for the previous electronic units which caused the double flash, none of which had an earth terminal, and were housed in plastic, with plastic fitting tags.
Thanks to everyone for your help.
Still not sure of the actual cause, but that's academic if this earthed unit solves the problem.

[microbill55]

Test drive between the showers, all ok on indicators and hazards, so seems to be fixed.
Bill

[svenedin]

Test drive between the showers, all ok on indicators and hazards, so seems to be fixed.
Bill

Very good! Glad to hear it. Suggestion: buy another flasher relay of exactly the same type as a spare. If the one on the car goes wrong, you really don't need all of the recent hassle trying to buy one that actually works!

Stephen

[microbill55]

I'm definitely going to do that. Looking at my records, it came from a local auto electrical place and was the cheapest at £6!
Good to end the thread on a high note.
Bill

[brixtonmorris]

Very interesting Stephen. that's not an original design.
May be esm have a flux capacitor.