Minors on Tour 2025 Casualties

[svenedin]

I am back safely from Minors on Tour 2025 in the Loire Valley in France.

I thought I would reflect on the various mechanical/electrical problems that people had during the trip. 56 cars of all ages attended.

Roughly speaking the average mileage per car was 750 miles but some people did much more. For example, there were participants from Norway and several from Denmark. One participant started from Bilbao in Spain. The mileage is not the whole story though. Some people chugged along on motorways whilst others (myself included) avoided motorways completely and used D and N roads. Avoiding motorways actually increased the mileage significantly and was much harder on the car and driver (frequent roundabouts, traffic calming measures in towns, steep hills, bends, cobbles at times etc etc) but much more interesting. I did 900 miles.

1) Mild overheating, slight misfires, slightly pale looking spark plugs. Several cars affected. Thought to be differences in fuel. Slight adjustment of fuel mixture to richer sorted the issue.
2) Loose tie rods (me). User error. Not sufficiently tightened
3) Loose brake back plate bolts (me). Probably due to the backplates having been freshly painted and vibration from driving over cobbles. Tightened. Problem resolved.
4) Brake cylinder failure (front). Cylinder replaced. No further issues
5) Rear half-shaft oil seal failure. Gasket replaced, o-ring seal was missing.
6) Alternator failure. On way home, terminal, recovered to home
7) Dynamo failure . On way home, terminal, recovered to home
Clutch failure due to failure of gearbox front cover oil seal (modified gearbox front cover). Clutch friction plate and seal replaced
9) Clutch failure (on way home) reason unknown, recovered to home
10) Valve damaged, 1275cc engine. Valve repaired as best possible (no spare available). Car ran but smoked badly and eventually the clutch also failed
11) Rear wheel fell off on motorway!!! Nobody hurt, car ok. Probably caused by over-torque of wheel nuts
12) Speedo cable snapped. Unable to extract snapped end of cable from gearbox. Continued using GPS app for speed indication

Stephen

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[mike1864]

Hi Stephen
A comprehensive list! I hadn't heard of the wheel loss.
Aside from user error (#2), only number 4 could perhaps have been identified/remedied pre-trip. The leaking wheel cylinders might have heralded by the (unchecked) master cylinder fluid level.
But, aside from this and the user errors, most of them are just random.
A few years back, one MOT had a spate of failed clutch linkages; hence I always keep this mechanism well greased.
On previous MOTs my oil consumption had been alarming. But curiously it seems to have got better this year, with no intervention. So I topped up with only one litre of the eleven I'd pessimistically brought with me!

[svenedin]

Yes, mostly random failures but not checking the master cylinder fluid level before such a long trip was daft.

Last year my oil consumption was around 1 pint per 100 miles which was a combination of leaking and burning. This year with a rebuilt engine I used 1/4 pint in 900 miles. Bit of a difference. Strange that your engine used far less oil this time. Do you think a leak clogged itself up?

Stephen

[Bill_qaz]

Interested in why alternator and dynamo failures were terminal?
Were they seized?

[svenedin]

They both failed on the way home so no spares were available as the group had dispersed. Both slowly discharged their batteries whilst being driven. One of them the driver managed to start the car on the starting handle to get on the ferry but the other could not re-start the car. Eventually both ended up being taken home on a trailer I believe.

[myoldjalopy]

So 12 faults out of 56 cars......quite a high proportion. Assuming owners had checked/serviced their cars before the trip, it just goes to show anything can fail at any time. Unluckily in a foreign country...... I have lost count of all the faults/breakdowns I have had over the last 40+ years, ranging from a blown bulb to a broken crankshaft and everything in between! I have certainly experienced 4, 5, 6, 7 and 12.
But the good news is these cars are eminently repairable.
It might be interesting to start a thread on 'breakdowns I have experienced', see what comes up most frequently.....

[svenedin]

So 12 faults out of 56 cars......quite a high proportion. Assuming owners had checked/serviced their cars before the trip, it just goes to show anything can fail at any time. Unluckily in a foreign country...... I have lost count of all the faults/breakdowns I have had over the last 40+ years, ranging from a blown bulb to a broken crankshaft and everything in between! I have certainly experienced 4, 5, 6, 7 and 12.
But the good news is these cars are eminently repairable.
It might be interesting to start a thread on 'breakdowns I have experienced', see what comes up most frequently.....

Yes quite a high proportion I thought too. I don't think many of the cars were checked over quite well enough and that includes my own sloppiness.

Indeed, they can be repaired "in the field" pretty easily and often made to go on a temporary basis until permanent repairs can be effected.

One fault that did make me wonder was the leaking modified oil seal in the gearbox front cover. I did this mod when the engine was out and I thought it was a good one. In normal operation there is no dripping of oil with the lip oil seal vs the original scroll. However, if the lip oil seal fails the clutch is drenched and that is a show stopper. The original scroll wears gradually and would give lots of warning......

The rear wheel falling off on the M4 on the way to France was the most dangerous failure. The owner thinks they had over-tightened the wheel nuts having bought a new longer ratchet handle and not using a torque wrench. This is an important lesson! They had a full car and this could have ended in catastrophe.

Stephen

[Bill_qaz]

They both failed on the way home so no spares were available as the group had dispersed. Both slowly discharged their batteries whilst being driven. One of them the driver managed to start the car on the starting handle to get on the ferry but the other could not re-start the car. Eventually both ended up being taken home on a trailer I believe.

Shame no one with them, to swap batteries on route, one charging whilst one discharging. I would of bought a new battery local rather than wait for recovery but to each their own.

[svenedin]

They both failed on the way home so no spares were available as the group had dispersed. Both slowly discharged their batteries whilst being driven. One of them the driver managed to start the car on the starting handle to get on the ferry but the other could not re-start the car. Eventually both ended up being taken home on a trailer I believe.

Shame no one with them, to swap batteries on route, one charging whilst one discharging. I would of bought a new battery local rather than wait for recovery but to each their own.

That would have been a great solution if they had been in convoy. To swap batteries with a fully functioning car and repeat as required.

Stephen

[mike1864]

They both failed on the way home so no spares were available as the group had dispersed. Both slowly discharged their batteries whilst being driven. One of them the driver managed to start the car on the starting handle to get on the ferry but the other could not re-start the car. Eventually both ended up being taken home on a trailer I believe.

Shame no one with them, to swap batteries on route, one charging whilst one discharging. I would of bought a new battery local rather than wait for recovery but to each their own.

With the coil and the pump each taking around 3 Amps, a fully charged 40Ah battery should be good for 7 hours of daytime motoring (if you limit/eliminate the use of the starter). I'd go for a local purchase, assuming the terminals match.
Plus next year I'd pack a charger for the overnight stops.
However, if the alternator/dynamo has actually seized, there is still the problem of the water pump!

[Bill_qaz]

The modern compact battery jump starters are brilliant, will start a moggy easily and can even be left attached to move the car to a safe location if the battery was totally dead.

[geoberni]

The rear wheel falling off on the M4 on the way to France was the most dangerous failure. The owner thinks they had over-tightened the wheel nuts having bought a new longer ratchet handle and not using a torque wrench. This is an important lesson! They had a full car and this could have ended in catastrophe.

Stephen

One of the reasons I have the correct size ring spanner in the boot all the time. The required torque at 38 (+/- 1) lb.ft. is so little compared to a modern car, just a good tweak with the ring spanner is sufficient at roadside.
As a teenager, I was in the back of a very overloaded Commer Imp van (2 adults, 2 teenagers and 3 under 10s, plus roofrack ), converted to have a back seat by my dad, when a back wheel came off on a country lane in Suffolk.
It was quite a long story as to how we were in the the particular mess, but it was probably summer of '72.
The back plate had ground down on the road, but we were luckily near relatives, on the way to see them for lunch, on our way home from a Norfolk holiday.
We recovered the wheel from ahead of us in a hedge, put it back on and limped to the relatives using the handbrake.
Dad got all the required bits from the local breakers that afternoon, and we were back on the road again.....
Ahh the good old days....

[svenedin]

The rear wheel falling off on the M4 on the way to France was the most dangerous failure. The owner thinks they had over-tightened the wheel nuts having bought a new longer ratchet handle and not using a torque wrench. This is an important lesson! They had a full car and this could have ended in catastrophe.

Stephen

One of the reasons I have the correct size ring spanner in the boot all the time. The required torque at 38 (+/- 1) lb.ft. is so little compared to a modern car, just a good tweak with the ring spanner is sufficient at roadside.
As a teenager, I was in the back of a very overloaded Commer Imp van (2 adults, 2 teenagers and 3 under 10s, plus roofrack ), converted to have a back seat by my dad, when a back wheel came off on a country lane in Suffolk.
It was quite a long story as to how we were in the the particular mess, but it was probably summer of '72.
The back plate had ground down on the road, but we were luckily near relatives, on the way to see them for lunch, on our way home from a Norfolk holiday.
We recovered the wheel from ahead of us in a hedge, put it back on and limped to the relatives using the handbrake.
Dad got all the required bits from the local breakers that afternoon, and we were back on the road again.....
Ahh the good old days....

You were lucky too! I’ve told the story before. As a teenage Scout we were taught how to change a wheel on the Scout Master’s Morris Minor. At the end of the evening, 6 patrols having a go, we had stripped the thread in all of the wheel nuts. Clumsy oafs we were.

Stephen

[Bill_qaz]

viewtopic.php?t=77160
Got this for wheel nut, hub cap remover, nut spinner and not too much leverage to overtighten

[ndevans]

The rear wheel falling off on the M4 on the way to France was the most dangerous failure. The owner thinks they had over-tightened the wheel nuts having bought a new longer ratchet handle and not using a torque wrench. This is an important lesson! They had a full car and this could have ended in catastrophe.

Stephen

That was us. Full story, I had removed the rear wheels 10 days prior to setting off, adjusted the brakes, got the car back on the ground & at that point got called in for tea. Pushed the car in, had tea, came out, faffed around with the parcel shelf & other trivial piffle and forgot about tightening the wheel nuts.

But...that was the Weds before Moggyfest. On the Sat we went from Bristol to Warminster (for parkrun), on to Beaulieu, then Bomo, Poole & back to Bristol, total about 220 miles. On the following Saturday (the day we left for France) I went to Cheltenham & back in it, another 75 miles.

The wheel came off about 20 miles in to the journey to Pompey for the ferry. We were just east of Leigh Delamere services, doing 60. I thought I had a flat, and was going to head for the services to sort it out, but when the car started swaying and I had to fight to keep it straight, I had to pull over onto the hard shoulder. The n/s rear wheel came off as we came on to the hard shoulder at about 30 (which is quite fast enough thank you).

Fortunately all ok, no injuries & apart from 3 broken wheel studs, new u-bolts & a replacement rear n/s wing the car is fine.
I am 99% certain that the problem was the wheel nuts being loose, or at least not fully tightened, but it is interesting that I got the thick end of 300 miles before it came off. That said the breakdown guy looked at the broken studs (2 on the side that came off, 1 on the other side), and said "nuts overtightened". That has planted a seed of doubt in my mind so I am renewing all the studs anyway.

As a side issue, the studs are standard Minor studs, but I have Minator alloys, which are thicker. The standard wheel nuts only engage a bit over half the thread with the alloys on, so I am replacing with longer studs. Probably nothing to do with the issue, but may as well if I am replacing the studs.

Moral of the story-always take the time to check your nuts.

Wheels up approach on the M4.

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Cheers N

[myoldjalopy]

Tyre places sometimes over-do the tightening with their guns, which doesn't help. On occasion, I have had a devil of a job to undo them again! And I had a stud snap, which might have been a consequence of their gung-ho approach to wheel nuts on an old Minor.

[svenedin]

The rear wheel falling off on the M4 on the way to France was the most dangerous failure. The owner thinks they had over-tightened the wheel nuts having bought a new longer ratchet handle and not using a torque wrench. This is an important lesson! They had a full car and this could have ended in catastrophe.

Stephen

That was us. Full story, I had removed the rear wheels 10 days prior to setting off, adjusted the brakes, got the car back on the ground & at that point got called in for tea. Pushed the car in, had tea, came out, faffed around with the parcel shelf & other trivial piffle and forgot about tightening the wheel nuts.

But...that was the Weds before Moggyfest. On the Sat we went from Bristol to Warminster (for parkrun), on to Beaulieu, then Bomo, Poole & back to Bristol, total about 220 miles. On the following Saturday (the day we left for France) I went to Cheltenham & back in it, another 75 miles.

The wheel came off about 20 miles in to the journey to Pompey for the ferry. We were just east of Leigh Delamere services, doing 60. I thought I had a flat, and was going to head for the services to sort it out, but when the car started swaying and I had to fight to keep it straight, I had to pull over onto the hard shoulder. The n/s rear wheel came off as we came on to the hard shoulder at about 30 (which is quite fast enough thank you).

Fortunately all ok, no injuries & apart from 3 broken wheel studs, new u-bolts & a replacement rear n/s wing the car is fine.
I am 99% certain that the problem was the wheel nuts being loose, or at least not fully tightened, but it is interesting that I got the thick end of 300 miles before it came off. That said the breakdown guy looked at the broken studs (2 on the side that came off, 1 on the other side), and said "nuts overtightened". That has planted a seed of doubt in my mind so I am renewing all the studs anyway.

As a side issue, the studs are standard Minor studs, but I have Minator alloys, which are thicker. The standard wheel nuts only engage a bit over half the thread with the alloys on, so I am replacing with longer studs. Probably nothing to do with the issue, but may as well if I am replacing the studs.

Moral of the story-always check your nuts.

Wheels up approach on the M4.
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Cheers N

Thank you for explaining what happened. I did talk to you about it a bit on "Le Walk" I think.......

Stephen