Rear light cluster with indicators

[Lockjack]

Hi all
I’ll start this with the usual message “I’m new to this group”…
I have just purchased a 1958 Morris Minor 10000 (948) with semaphore indicators, but the wife is a bit scared of this and now wants me to retro fit standard type (along with seat belts which is my next headache).
So question is as follows: do the later model rear light clusters with indicators fit into the old type hole (no indicator) without adjusting ?
Also thinking it would be nice to use the side lights as indicators and fit headlights with side lights included.
If so can someone provide a wiring diagram on how to do this. Obviously I happy to go with a more simple option if you have one.
Thx in advance for your assistance…

[myoldjalopy]

I don't believe the later light clusters will fit in the existing holes. Best solution without messing about with what's already there is to fit flashing indicators on a bracket under the bumper valances, front and back. Many have done this. IMO the later light fittings look dreadful on the older cars. You can get a period switch as well to fit on a bracket under the dash to operate the indicators separately from the trafficators, or you could wire them up to the same switch but you may find it is not always desirable for the trafficators to come out every time you want to indicate.

[Lockjack]

Thanks for the prompt response and information. I think I’d like to keep the indicator arm so maybe I could put a switch in which could change between semaphore and standard indicators? I’m no electrician but thinking it can’t be that hard, but it would be very helpful to have a wiring diagram of some sort. Thx again very helpful.

[geoberni]

So let's start with 'Welcome'.... There are a few varieties of Indicator system, for the original specs of many things to do with Minors, it's worth having a good read of the data on the Potteries Branch website http://potteries.mmoc.org.uk/Identification.htm

On the Lighting page, it explains all the various systems.

Your choice is quite easy, you simply have to add Indicators, BUT it's not as simple as you might think as Indicators are powered by a Flasher Unit, while Trafficators have a steady supply whilst deployed. If you simply connect everything together, the trafficators will be in and out like the proverbial Fiddlers elbow.
The easiest thing to do is have 2 separate systems on 2 switches.
Or you can connect a separate Flasher unit for each side.

My car has the most complex system, the DB10 Relay used between '61 and '63, even though my car is a '55 .
About 25 years ago a past owner rebuilt the car and fitted a new loom from the 61-63 era. I would not advise going that route.

If you don't want to add the extra lights to the car bodywork, you can get ones that will fix to the bumper, plenty of choice online.
I would advise against the expense and work of adding the larger, post 1963 lights to the front & rear. Not only does it look a little odd on the earlier cars, IMHO, it's an expensive choice in terms of work and cost of parts.
Here's the basic 'Add a Flasher either side' wiring...

Adding Basic Indicators.jpg (50.86 KiB) Viewed 3616 times

If you haven't got one yet, get the original Morris/BL Workshop Manual AKD 530, it even includes the original details of how to fit seat belts.
There are usually original loose leaf ones on ebay and the modern reprints are also around as a bound book.
Be careful with the Loose leaf ones, sometimes they are very old versions so lacking the odd page or even the later updates, such as the seat belt fitting.

You can even find pdf downloads online of the AKD530 from a few websites.

[myoldjalopy]

I agree with 'geobernie' that the 'easiest thing to do is have 2 separate systems on 2 switches.' That is what I have. Here is a link to a thread which shows the separate switch which I fitted on a bracket under the dash: viewtopic.php?t=66612 That way you can retain the indicator arm for the trafficators (or you could swap them round so that the new indicators work off the arm and the old trafficators work off the new switch).
I can't show you the fixing arrangement for the indicators fitted under the bumper as a previous owner long ago fitted separate indicators in the wings themselves, keeping the original rear lights (I'm sure there are pictures online somewhere, or maybe someone else has this on their car and can post a photo). But I think even that looks better than the new lamp cluster fitted to early cars, though it has been done many times when new wings have been fitted with the holes for the later lights. 'geobernie' says that method looks 'a little odd' - I would go further and say it looks awful! At least the way 'geobernie' and I have suggested means you are not permanently destroying the originality of the car - there are less and less original specimens of the earlier cars nowadays.

[myoldjalopy]

OK, I have found a car online that has the indicators fitted under the bumpers. Its an older model than yours, but the principle is the same.....
https://www.manorparkclassics.com/aucti ... =1886&sd=1

[geoberni]

You can typically get that sort of thing sold as Motorcycle Indicators.
You just need to make sure you buy the right ones, as some are simply 'Marker Lights' so only have 5w or 10W lamp capacity. Indicators require 21W.

[Lockjack]

thanks Geoberni and Myoldjalopy, i think i have enough now to get this in place. Is there a wire gauge(i can see the colours) that you would recommend or somewhere i can calculate it. thx everyone's help very much appreciated

[geoberni]

thanks Geoberni and Myoldjalopy, i think i have enough now to get this in place. Is there a wire gauge(i can see the colours) that you would recommend or somewhere i can calculate it. thx everyone's help very much appreciated

21W at 12v requires under 2A, so even the common connection to each Flasher unit is less than 4A.
Typically, the thinnest DIY/Classic vehicle cable is rated at around 5.75A or more, so that's fine.
In the past I've used this company for good value on cable: https://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/c/cable