50+ yr old minors driving what to expect

[Mercmancdi]

Like to know you opinion of what you should expect from minors over 50 yrs old whilst driving , and what are they like to drive ,
This is for original or as near , drum brakes , same engine
size , same suspension & gearbox etc. is what is norm
Bad brakes , gears a bit tricky to select , rattles etc are they expected. Etc etc. ( a well looked after car I mean )
? What’s your experiences.

[KeithL]

I can only comment based on our experiences with our 1959 Traveller. It is pretty standard with drum brakes all round and no brake servo. Standard suspension all round, standard seats etc. It does have a 1098cc engine and gearbox, with no synchro on 1st gear.

What driving such a car does teach you is how to drive the old-fashioned way - to observe what is going on around you and what the road conditions are, to anticipate what is going to happen and to act accordingly. For example, assuming they are properly maintained, the brakes are perfectly adequate for a car with only 48 bhp and which weighs a half to a third of most the other cars on the road and we have never had a problem braking. The 4-speed gearbox is absolutely fine with no selection problems, although the lack of synchromesh on 1st can be a bit of a pain sometime. In the 15 years we have had ours we have never had a rattle and indeed the Traveller has been the most reliable car in our fleet, only letting us down once when the head gasket went. It costs peanuts to service and maintain, even allowing for a voluntary MoT every year. Because it is devoid of electronic systems busily working away whilst you are asleep the car can be left for months without the battery losing its charge.

Do our bums go numb on a long trip? Yes. Do we get hot in the summer? No, because we can open the windows. Can we see much at night? No, not a lot, but then we tend to avoid taking it out at night. I may fit LED replacement bulbs. Are the windscreen wipers any good? They're not great, but we tend to avoid going out in the rain and that seems to solve the problem. Do we have satnav, climate control, an 18 speaker audio system, seat belts, air bags and, most crucially, a way of connecting our mobile phone? No. Do we enjoy our driving more? Yes. Does every journey take longer? Yes, because as soon as you get out of the car, or go back to it, someone will come up and tell you they learnt to drive in one and/or remember their family holidays in one with mum and dad in the front and 6 kids and the dog in the back. Will you make lots of new friends? Yes.

[Mercmancdi]

Excellent review Keithl interesting to hear about different experiences, I had one before but it was so much modified it was pointless, At the minute I am restoring a 1970 traveller, must admit it’s in very good condition but engine is out at minute to clean up , new clutch , thermostat etc water pump vacuum pipes ,gear box felt bit sloppy so hoping clutch and all new linkage and mountings are going to improve it as a recon box looks like £700 and it’s not handy as I live in N.I . Going for a full respray to green log book says white so going for old English white. Have purchased 99% genuine new bright work , but parts are getting very expensive now. Like to hear other owner’s experiences.

[Edward1949]

Good luck with the restoration!
For old guys like me driving Minors is helped because that's what we drove in our youth. Compared with a modern, the first impressions for a newbie are an awareness of lack of power assistance for braking (which you soon learn to allow for) and the lack of 5th gear for high speed cruising. A post-1962 Minor will cruise at 70 but the engine lets you know it's revving pretty hard and at first you keep looking for that non-existent 5th gear. The simplicity of controls is a delight (simple on-off switches for lights, heater, wipers etc, instead of fumbling with all those nasty stalks). And manual wind-up windows and opening quarterlights - bliss!

[Mercmancdi]

[Guildbass]

One thing that really surprised me was how fast the windows go up and down . Like about one rotation of the winder and it goes all the way.
I now find electric windows tediously slow!

[Mercmancdi]

Plus it’s fun and even a laugh now and then. ( except for the times your below it fixing it now and then but hey at least they are workable unlike the newer cars. ) And to be honest as long as it’s not too expensive I love working on it. Spend a lifetime working on big diesels and mostly modern German cars it’s just such a relief when you open the bonnet of something like a minor .

[Nickol]

Good luck with the restoration!
For old guys like me driving Minors is helped because that's what we drove in our youth. Compared with a modern, the first impressions for a newbie are an awareness of lack of power assistance for braking (which you soon learn to allow for) and the lack of 5th gear for high speed cruising. A post-1962 Minor will cruise at 70 but the engine lets you know it's revving pretty hard and at first you keep looking for that non-existent 5th gear. The simplicity of controls is a delight (simple on-off switches for lights, heater, wipers etc, instead of fumbling with all those nasty stalks). And manual wind-up windows and opening quarterlights - bliss!

the late BMCecosse advised me that an alternative to a 5th gear is to fit a lower ratio diff which I did, a 3,9 as opposed to the standard 4,11. The difference is not immediately noticable except in "high speed" cruising at 80-90kmh. Glad I did it though.

[Mercmancdi]

[Bill_qaz]

Good luck with the restoration!
For old guys like me driving Minors is helped because that's what we drove in our youth. Compared with a modern, the first impressions for a newbie are an awareness of lack of power assistance for braking (which you soon learn to allow for) and the lack of 5th gear for high speed cruising. A post-1962 Minor will cruise at 70 but the engine lets you know it's revving pretty hard and at first you keep looking for that non-existent 5th gear. The simplicity of controls is a delight (simple on-off switches for lights, heater, wipers etc, instead of fumbling with all those nasty stalks). And manual wind-up windows and opening quarterlights - bliss!

the late BMCecosse advised me that an alternative to a 5th gear is to fit a lower ratio diff which I did, a 3,9 as opposed to the standard 4,11. The difference is not immediately noticable except in "high speed" cruising at 80-90kmh. Glad I did it though.

You mean a higher ratio diff, smaller the number the higher the ratio, so less engine rpm versus speed

[Nickol]

indeed

[Mr. V]

It's high ratio for acceleration and low for economy. The bigger the difference the higher the ratio.

That's my two penn'orth.

[Bill_qaz]

It's high ratio for acceleration and low for economy. The bigger the difference the higher the ratio.

That's my two penn'orth.

Not really, a low ratio gives better acceleration but lower top speed and worse economy as engine rpm is higher per mph
Hi ratio gives less acceleration but lower rpm per mph so better fuel economy

Eg a 4:1 ratio is lower geared than a 3.7 :1 ratio
It's the number of crownwheel teeth divide by the number of pinion teeth that gives the ratio.
So at 4:1 the propshaft turns 4 times to one revolution of the wheels if both on the ground.

[Mr. V]

Sorry Bill, but if you consult engineering reference books they say things like "A high gear ratio characterises a driven gear with a greater number of teeth compared to the driving gear" and so on. This is the opposite of what you maintain.

At the risk of sounding patronising yours is a very common misunderstanding.

[philthehill]

For what it is worth I am with Bill.
Your explanation above is about face - if the driven gear has a greater number of teeth than the driver gear then the number of turns of the driven gear is lower relative to the driver gear - so the outcome is a lower gearing.
Here is another example:
The number of teeth on the camshaft gear is twice the number of teeth on the crankshaft gear as the camshaft has to rotate at half the speed of the crankshaft. So the ratio between the crankshaft rotations and the camshaft rotations is lower.

[Bill_qaz]

Sorry Bill, but if you consult engineering reference books they say things like "A high gear ratio characterises a driven gear with a greater number of teeth compared to the driving gear" and so on. This is the opposite of what you maintain.

At the risk of sounding patronising yours is a very common misunderstanding.

Having spent 50 years working in the truck industry including 5 years teaching as product training instructor including axle rebuilding courses. What would I know?
So you patronise away with your reference book

[ManyMinors]

It's high ratio for acceleration and low for economy. The bigger the difference the higher the ratio.

That's my two penn'orth.

Not really, a low ratio gives better acceleration but lower top speed and worse economy as engine rpm is higher per mph
Hi ratio gives less acceleration but lower rpm per mph so better fuel economy

Eg a 4:1 ratio is lower geared than a 3.7 :1 ratio
It's the number of crownwheel teeth divide by the number of pinion teeth that gives the ratio.
So at 4:1 the propshaft turns 4 times to one revolution of the wheels if both on the ground.

I have to say that I agree with Mr.V here in principle. A 3.7:1 differential is a lower ratio than a 4.1:1 is it not? A lower ratio gives higher overall gearing. A high ratio gives lower overall gearing.

A lower ratio (such as a 3.7:1 does not give better acceleration

[philthehill]

This discussion regarding gear ratios could go on for ever and it has run for ever. There has always been differences in the way people look at how gear ratios are presented.
Not withstanding the above the gear ratio is dependent upon the numerical rotational relationship between the input and output shafts.

[ManyMinors]

So do you not agree that in this case, the lower the differential ratio, the higher the gearing? It seems a very simple principle to me.

[Bill_qaz]

No the lower the number the higher the ratio the higher the number the lower the ratio
1:1 is direct drive
Any number above 1 :1 is a reduction, the bigger the number the greater the reduction.
If the number is below 1 eg 0.8 : 1 it overdrive.

Look at your moggy gearbox 4th gear is 1:1 all your other gears something greater than 1:1
as each is a lower ratio than top gear.
It the same in axles the bigger the number the greater the reduction, the lower the ratio.

EG 30 crownwheel teeth and 8 pinion teeth = 3.75 :1 higher geared
40 crownwheel teeth and 8 pinion teeth = 5.0 :1 lower geared

Engineering fact but you can think what you want or call what you want. But having worked for a company that produced its own axles and gearboxes I am sticking to my version.