Starter won't engage

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James k
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Starter won't engage

Post by James k »

Hi,

I went to start my car this morning and after not starting on the first turn, which is fairly normal, the starter wouldn't engage. The motor spins but doesn't engage with the flywheel so I can't start the car. This has happened a couple of times in the past and has always been cured by giving the starter a few whacks with a hammer. This time, that didn't work so I took out the starter and cleaned the bendix with brake cleaner. It seemed relatively free and wasn't covered in oil or other gunk. This also didn't work.

Any ideas on what to try next? I need the car for work on Monday so ideally, I'd like to get it fixed tomorrow.

Thanks,
James
don58van
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Re: Starter won't engage

Post by don58van »

It sounds to me like the starter isn't getting enough power. Have you checked the battery charge?
To explain, in the moments after being supplied with power, the starter motor needs spin energetically to fling the bendix drive out to engage with the flywheel. If it doesn't spin up energetically enough, the bendix drive won't move and the motor will just hum away sweetly but uselessly.
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Re: Starter won't engage

Post by Myrtles Man »

Use the starting handle?
James k
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Re: Starter won't engage

Post by James k »

I'll try tomorrow with a jump lead from the battery to the starter to rule out resistance along the line. I did put the lights on to see if they dimmed a lot when the starter was turned but they didn't so I assumed the battery was okay.

I did try the handle many times but, as ever, I couldn't make it work. I'm sure there's a knack to it that I don't know! Although I've never understood how an engine starts with one flick of the handle when it takes a couple of seconds of cranking on the starter.
stuffedpike20
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Re: Starter won't engage

Post by stuffedpike20 »

Make sure that the earth strap from the gearbox/engine is tight to the body of the car to get maximum power to the starter.
oliver90owner
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Re: Starter won't engage

Post by oliver90owner »

James k wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 12:04 am I'll try tomorrow with a jump lead from the battery to the starter to rule out resistance along the line. I did put the lights on to see if they dimmed a lot when the starter was turned but they didn't so I assumed the battery was okay.

I did try the handle many times but, as ever, I couldn't make it work. I'm sure there's a knack to it that I don't know! Although I've never understood how an engine starts with one flick of the handle when it takes a couple of seconds of cranking on the starter.
Never “assume”. Particularly when checking things out is so easy and simple. In this case, the starter will draw much less current while simply ‘idling’ than when actually turning the engine. That can easily negate your assumption.

Using the starting handle was fairly universal until starter motors became commonplace. Yes it needs some thought, but certainly worked (or why would they supply a ‘starting handle’ with the car?).

I would always check the battery voltage and voltage drops when supplying power, but likely just stick on a battery charger for a while as a simple aid. If checks show a low state of charge, it would need charging, anyway.
Myrtles Man
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Re: Starter won't engage

Post by Myrtles Man »

James k wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 12:04 am
I did try the handle many times but, as ever, I couldn't make it work. I'm sure there's a knack to it that I don't know! Although I've never understood how an engine starts with one flick of the handle when it takes a couple of seconds of cranking on the starter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjLiGqC_YsI
islecastle
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Re: Starter won't engage

Post by islecastle »

When you use the starting handle you get full 12+ volts at the coil, whereas when using the starter, you will only get around 10 volts to the coil. Thus a better spark when using the handle.
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jimmy167
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Re: Starter won't engage

Post by jimmy167 »

The starting handle will not work if you have electronic ignition .Which is a good reason to stick with points .
James k
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Re: Starter won't engage

Post by James k »

Thanks for the tips. I'm going to get to work on it in a bit and I'll report back when I'm finished.

Jimmy167, it does have electronic ignition but why would this prevent it from being started on the handle?
James k
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Re: Starter won't engage

Post by James k »

It's now fixed! I checked the battery voltage and all was well, no drop in voltage when spinning the starter, full voltage present at starter.

I removed the starter again and found that the bendix was a bit sticky. Yesterday, I'd just given it a blast with brake cleaner. I took it out and thoroughly cleaned out the bendix with petrol and let it dry. It started first time once refitted!

Looks like I'll be able to drive to work tomorrow!
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Re: Starter won't engage

Post by jimmy167 »

Hi James ,I can't give you a technical answer , but you can prove me wrong by starting it with your starting handle .
James k
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Re: Starter won't engage

Post by James k »

Well, Jimmy, your little trick worked :wink: after some perseverance, I managed to get it started on the handle, not that I need to now!

I'm not entirely sure what I did to make it work so I'm not confident about being able to repeat it!
jimmy167
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Re: Starter won't engage

Post by jimmy167 »

Well done , I am proved wrong again .
myoldjalopy
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Re: Starter won't engage

Post by myoldjalopy »

When you think about it, the engine is started in the same way whether it is points or electronic ignition - that is, turning the engine over with ignition on. Using the handle is merely doing the job of the starter motor, but using your muscles instead of electricity.........
James k
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Re: Starter won't engage

Post by James k »

myoldjalopy wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 10:46 am When you think about it, the engine is started in the same way whether it is points or electronic ignition - that is, turning the engine over with ignition on. Using the handle is merely doing the job of the starter motor, but using your muscles instead of electricity.........
Indeed, hence why I don't understand the suggestion that it wouldn't work.
simmitc
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Re: Starter won't engage

Post by simmitc »

With points, you can move the distributor spindle very slowly to the point where the points just open or close, thus causing the spark to be induced, With some electronic units, I have found that the trigger magnet needs to move quite fast past the detector in order to trigger the unit. It probably depends on the circuit/components used, but definitely some fire instantly on the key but remain stubbornly dead with the handle when you just cannot spin the engine fast enough for the electronics to work. I can write only from experience, and have not tried every unit that is on the market.
James k
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Re: Starter won't engage

Post by James k »

Interesting point, simmitc, I'll research it further. The unit I have is a powerspark 45d which uses a Hall effect sensor which should respond at any speed. I think there are other systems which use magnetic pickup and may require a minimum speed to trigger.
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