More stupid Ital questions :-)

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Pyoor_Kate
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More stupid Ital questions :-)

Post by Pyoor_Kate »

Um,

Can anyone tell me the required torque on an A+ engine (or is it the same as the A series) for:

- The head bolts (well, nuts)
- The rocker retaining nuts (or whatever they're called, the ones that hold the rocker mechanism to the head; not sure if they need to be torqued up, but I'm clean and the manual is in the garage...)

Do the bolts on the backplate need to be torqued up?
And the flywheel?

can y'guess I've not had a chance to find a manual yet? :-)
Pyoor Kate
The Electric Minor Project
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1969 Morris 'thou, 4 Door. 2010 Mitsubishi iMiEV. 1920s BSA Pushbike. 1930s Raleigh pushbike.
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1974 & 1975 Daf 44s, 1975 Enfield 8000 EV, 1989 Yugo 45, 1981 Golf Mk1, 1971 Vauxhall Viva, 1989 MZ ETZ 125, 1989 Volvo Vario 340, 1990, 1996 & 1997 MZ/Kanuni ETZ 251s
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Cam
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RE: More stupid Ital questions :-)

Post by Cam »

Umm... well, the head nuts should be around 45 -50 foot-pounds. The others I'm not sure of (as my Marina manual is 200 miles away! :roll: ).

Pretty much everything needs to be torqued up and if I were you, I'd put some threadlock on the flywheel bolts before torqueing (sp?) it up.

Best bet is to get a Marina or Ital manual (eBay), but of you want to get going before that, then I'll have a look tonight when I get home for the torque settings in my manual (unless someone else has one to hand).......
Pyoor_Kate
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RE: More stupid Ital questions :-)

Post by Pyoor_Kate »

Well, Saturday morning (while I leave the head & rockers to soak in some paraffin :-) ) I'll try and run round lots of second hand shops and see if I can find a 1275 ital manual.

'nuther dumb question though. Anyone got an A+ engine number reference? I've tried but I can only find mini/A+ Metro related stuff. I'm just wondering what happy variant 12V923EHZ 051854 might be. Of course, I might have read that wrong, considering it's got gobs of oil on it and I'm all ready for work so not happy to go smearing myself in grease (I don't think the patients would like that) ;-)
Pyoor Kate
The Electric Minor Project
The Current Fleet:
1969 Morris 'thou, 4 Door. 2010 Mitsubishi iMiEV. 1920s BSA Pushbike. 1930s Raleigh pushbike.
The Ex-Fleet:
1974 & 1975 Daf 44s, 1975 Enfield 8000 EV, 1989 Yugo 45, 1981 Golf Mk1, 1971 Vauxhall Viva, 1989 MZ ETZ 125, 1989 Volvo Vario 340, 1990, 1996 & 1997 MZ/Kanuni ETZ 251s
Desires:
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iambiggles
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Re: More stupid Ital questions :-)

Post by iambiggles »

Pyoor_Kate wrote:Um,

Can anyone tell me the required torque on an A+ engine (or is it the same as the A series) for:

- The head bolts (well, nuts)
- The rocker retaining nuts (or whatever they're called, the ones that hold the rocker mechanism to the head; not sure if they need to be torqued up, but I'm clean and the manual is in the garage...)

Do the bolts on the backplate need to be torqued up?
And the flywheel?

can y'guess I've not had a chance to find a manual yet? :-)
From the Ital Worskshop Manual: lbft - Nm

Main Bearing Bolts - 63 - 85
Big end bearing nuts - 33 - 45
Flywheel to crankshaft bolts - 40 - 55
Oil pump bolts - 8 - 11
Crankshaft gearwheel nut - 65 - 88
Crankshaft Pulley bolt - 75 - 102
Cylinder Head nuts - 50 - 68
Rocker shaft nuts - 24 - 32
Manifold to Cylinder head nuts - 16 - 22
Brake servo pipe banjo union - 37 - 50
Camshaft retaining plate bolt - 8 - 11
Front plate to main bearing cap - 5 - 7
front plate to crankcase - 16 -22
oil pressure relief valve nut - 45 - 61
timing cover to front plate:
1/4 in UNF bolts - 5 - 7
5/16 in UNF bolts 12 - 16
Rocker cover bolts - 3.5 - 4.7
Sump securing bolts - 6 - 8

Thats the lots - anything else you need I have the Manual as I say, so can scan pages if needed.

Ta Ta

Grant
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RE: Re: More stupid Ital questions :-)

Post by bmcecosse »

If you torque cylinder head nuts beyond 50 ft lbs you will break or strip something !! So read the above very carefully - the second figure is for NM - whatever they are !! ( Yes - I know it is Newton Metres - but who knows what that feels like !) Also the 50 ft lbs is for a clean well oiled thread - and always better to have a good thick washer under the nut to spread the load. BMC used to sell these through the Special Tuning Dept - as 'Competition Head Washer Set' !!
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Pyoor_Kate
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RE: Re: More stupid Ital questions :-)

Post by Pyoor_Kate »

Well, the head bolts went in okay, but one of the [mutter] rocker retaining bolts has stripped it's thread (and at way below 24lbft, the manual figure).

Otherwise though it's going well :-)

It's holding, but not as tight as I'd like :(

The engine is *lush*; it's still got manufacturing marks on some of the bores - and the waterways have no corrosion in them. Mmm. Nice engine :-)

Managed to pick up a brand spanking new, still in cellophane Ital manual for a fiver, so I'm happy :-)
Pyoor Kate
The Electric Minor Project
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1969 Morris 'thou, 4 Door. 2010 Mitsubishi iMiEV. 1920s BSA Pushbike. 1930s Raleigh pushbike.
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Multiphonikks
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RE: Re: More stupid Ital questions :-)

Post by Multiphonikks »

I'd second the engine state. The waterways are wonderful. In fact, you can see the paint on the inside of the head.
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RE: Re: More stupid Ital questions :-)

Post by bmcecosse »

The rocker shaft is held down by studs - not bolts. DO NOT leave it in the 'stripped' condition - it's probably the stud that has stripped on the fine threads (where the nut goes) - so fit another stud. ALWAYS pull the rocker shaft down with the head nuts - not with the rocker nuts - and when taking apart - always undo the rocker nuts first - then the head nuts.
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Pyoor_Kate
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RE: Re: More stupid Ital questions :-)

Post by Pyoor_Kate »

Uh, no...

The stud started turning and stripped the threads inside the head. I'm presuming helicoling won't work, with 24 lbft on it, so it'll need to be tapped 'n' die'd with a new thread - and presumably a larger stud. Which will be, uh, difficult - and require the head off. If I can get away with it, as it is fairly tight, then I kinda have to. I don't have the money to get stuff like that done.
Pyoor Kate
The Electric Minor Project
The Current Fleet:
1969 Morris 'thou, 4 Door. 2010 Mitsubishi iMiEV. 1920s BSA Pushbike. 1930s Raleigh pushbike.
The Ex-Fleet:
1974 & 1975 Daf 44s, 1975 Enfield 8000 EV, 1989 Yugo 45, 1981 Golf Mk1, 1971 Vauxhall Viva, 1989 MZ ETZ 125, 1989 Volvo Vario 340, 1990, 1996 & 1997 MZ/Kanuni ETZ 251s
Desires:
Trabant 601, Tatra T603, Series II Landy, Moskvitch-401, Vincent HRD Black Shadow, Huge garage, Job in Washington State.
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RE: Re: More stupid Ital questions :-)

Post by bmcecosse »

Threads in the head is very unusual - had the nut gone to the end of the fine thread ?? It will re-tap metric without too much trouble - but it will likely be ok - so leave it for now !!
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les
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RE: Re: More stupid Ital questions :-)

Post by les »

Helicoils work fine with 24 lb torque.
rayofleamington
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RE: Re: More stupid Ital questions :-)

Post by rayofleamington »

I'm presuming helicoling won't work, with 24 lbft on it, so it'll need to be tapped 'n' die'd with a new thread
Helicoils are stronger than the original thread if done properly.
Pyoor_Kate
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RE: Re: More stupid Ital questions :-)

Post by Pyoor_Kate »

Really? Back when I got my old 'zed helicoiled on it's gearbox drainplug (my fault, I was in a hurry and alloy casing plus steel bolt... well) the guy was all "don't do it up too tight, it's not as strong".

If it's just that then I'll put it on the list to do when I redo the exhaust/manifold. Unless of course it doesn't stay done up in which case it may get a bit more urgent! :-)
Pyoor Kate
The Electric Minor Project
The Current Fleet:
1969 Morris 'thou, 4 Door. 2010 Mitsubishi iMiEV. 1920s BSA Pushbike. 1930s Raleigh pushbike.
The Ex-Fleet:
1974 & 1975 Daf 44s, 1975 Enfield 8000 EV, 1989 Yugo 45, 1981 Golf Mk1, 1971 Vauxhall Viva, 1989 MZ ETZ 125, 1989 Volvo Vario 340, 1990, 1996 & 1997 MZ/Kanuni ETZ 251s
Desires:
Trabant 601, Tatra T603, Series II Landy, Moskvitch-401, Vincent HRD Black Shadow, Huge garage, Job in Washington State.
les
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RE: Re: More stupid Ital questions :-)

Post by les »

Sounds like your guy tapped a sloppy thread that the helicoil screws into!
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