Hi,
I had given my 1970, 1098cc 4 door saloon for non engine related work. Unfortunately for various reasons, the car remained with the mechanic for 2 years without starting. The engine was then running smoothly.
Although it didn't have any float related issues, when it was started after this long gap, the float chamber was overflowing(through tiny hole on top). The float was adjusted & refitted. Additionally, the car is running rich. Black smoke through tail pipe. From the smell, the mechanic thinks that it isn't burning oil.
If the brand new spark plugs are cleaned, it sounds fairly normal for the first few minutes. 2 of 4 plugs are getting wet. The mechanic says that the wet deposits are fuel & not oil. (Sometimes/randomly it is 3 plugs & the engine stops)
The mechanic believes that some mechanism inside the distributor assembly might have got stuck. He turned it slightly & there seems to be a little improvement.
After I noticed the float chamber overflow & the engine running rich, I turned slightly the spring loaded vertical screw(located between the float chamber & the conical air filter - underneath).
1. Should I be worried that I touched this vertical screw?
2. What are the possible reasons for the plugs getting wet?(There were no problems when it was last started 2 years ago)
-----
Engine oil was replaced.
Many thanks
Running rich, wet plugs
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Re: Running rich, wet plugs
fuel out of the top of the carb is a sign that the needle jet is stuck open,or the float is holed and not lifting the needle up into the jet to shut off the flow.More likely that there is or has been grit jamming the needle , fiddling with the float usually frees off the needle and jet so no more fuel out of the carb,but a permanent fix is to fit a new jet assembly. your black smoke is a sign of an over rich engine,since the car has stood for two years ,could be that the choke is not shutting off (Stuck) look under the carb and see if the jet assembly is being returned to the fully up position with the choke pushed right in,just put your hand under it and give it a push upwards.
Unlikely to be a distributor problem.
Unscrew the black nut on top of the carb lift it up and pull out the mechanism ,re fit and see if there is a reasonable resistance to pushing it in,indicating that there is oil in side,(There should be) if it just drops straight in with no or little resistance then put a small drop or two,it only takes a little,of oil in it,and then refit. It controls the speed and distance the carb needle lifts out of the jet,to prevent over enrichment on acceleration
The large nut under the carb is the jet adjuster,minor alteration will not effect mixture to a great extent,BUT here is the way to set it ,after making sure the choke is fully off,assembly right up, screw the nut right up into the carb until it will go no further,then screw it down counting twelve flats of the nut,then start engine and when warm ,you will see a small pin hanging down from under the carb,lit this pin with your finger until you feel it contacting the carb plunger ,then just lift a bit more,if the engine speeds up and stays up too rich turn large nut up slightly and try the lit pin again,if engine stops too weak,turn nut down slightly try again,you are looking for the engine to speed up slightly then fall back and run a bit rough. good luck,you are on a rapidly learning curve,soon be an expert.
Unlikely to be a distributor problem.
Unscrew the black nut on top of the carb lift it up and pull out the mechanism ,re fit and see if there is a reasonable resistance to pushing it in,indicating that there is oil in side,(There should be) if it just drops straight in with no or little resistance then put a small drop or two,it only takes a little,of oil in it,and then refit. It controls the speed and distance the carb needle lifts out of the jet,to prevent over enrichment on acceleration
The large nut under the carb is the jet adjuster,minor alteration will not effect mixture to a great extent,BUT here is the way to set it ,after making sure the choke is fully off,assembly right up, screw the nut right up into the carb until it will go no further,then screw it down counting twelve flats of the nut,then start engine and when warm ,you will see a small pin hanging down from under the carb,lit this pin with your finger until you feel it contacting the carb plunger ,then just lift a bit more,if the engine speeds up and stays up too rich turn large nut up slightly and try the lit pin again,if engine stops too weak,turn nut down slightly try again,you are looking for the engine to speed up slightly then fall back and run a bit rough. good luck,you are on a rapidly learning curve,soon be an expert.
Re: Running rich, wet plugs
Kennatt' s expertise on Morris Minors is light years ahead of the mechanic ( ? ) MorrisGoa employs. The other thread speaks volumes
about the level of " expertise " being lavished on the Minor , by the mechanic.
Lets hope the mechanic's " adjustment " of the float level was carried out with some reference to a workshop manual !
Another endorsement for Kennatt's instructions.
Bob
about the level of " expertise " being lavished on the Minor , by the mechanic.
Lets hope the mechanic's " adjustment " of the float level was carried out with some reference to a workshop manual !
Another endorsement for Kennatt's instructions.
Bob
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firehor5e
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Re: Running rich, wet plugs
Well said,Roy would have been happy with that,dissapointed he didnt get there first though.
1968 2 door 1275
Re: Running rich, wet plugs
Thanks @kennatt for the detailed response, @firehor5e, @mogbob
@kennatt After cleaning the spark plugs (1 of which was wet), I set the 'Jet adjuster nut' as instructed. There is now practically no visible smoke at idle speed. The black smoke is gone
The car has been idling at quite a high speed. When it was given to the workshop, it was such that the when the pedal was left the red ignition light would glow dimly. Perhaps someone touched it
The choke cable was removed a few months ago, and yes, the spring loaded choke lever (near the carburetor) stays up as expected.
I took out the carburettor's black oil cap nut & put about 10 drops of engine oil there. The mechanic later confirmed that he had put oil in there earlier. At first there was no resistance. I lifted it up & down a couple of times and noticed that there is strong resistance(desired behaviour) about 65% of the time. Keep in mind that the car was driven in to the workshop and had absolutely no throttle related problems.
(I used 20 W 50 grade engine oil).
The problem arises is when accelerated. Black smoke, an initial reluctance to accelerate & then the engine cuts off. It made a loud sound(just once) that the mechanic calls backfire. The car then does not start unless I clean the 4 plugs. None of them were visibly wet. Just black soot.
1. What could be the problem?
About 2 decades ago, the electrical fuel pump was removed(importing one was a nightmare back then) & replaced with a mechanical one sourced from an old Fiat 1100. It has run 20Kms recently, so it's definitely working. There were no fuel overflow 2 years ago, but when started after a 2 year gap, the float chamber was overflowing myteriously. The float was adjusted & the overflow has stopped. My only concern is that the pressure it generates is different from the one the Morris used. Hence the float valve setting in my case will be different from what the Workshop Manual states.
My logic is that the float at the back of your toilet has to be adjusted differently when under high pressure to maintain the same water level. Same applies here perhaps
I saw the video below. The video portion I'm referring to is the 6 seconds (0:22 to 0:28)
2. Could an incorrect fuel level in the float chamber be the cause of the black smoke problem?
Many thanks.
@kennatt After cleaning the spark plugs (1 of which was wet), I set the 'Jet adjuster nut' as instructed. There is now practically no visible smoke at idle speed. The black smoke is gone
The car has been idling at quite a high speed. When it was given to the workshop, it was such that the when the pedal was left the red ignition light would glow dimly. Perhaps someone touched it
The choke cable was removed a few months ago, and yes, the spring loaded choke lever (near the carburetor) stays up as expected.
I took out the carburettor's black oil cap nut & put about 10 drops of engine oil there. The mechanic later confirmed that he had put oil in there earlier. At first there was no resistance. I lifted it up & down a couple of times and noticed that there is strong resistance(desired behaviour) about 65% of the time. Keep in mind that the car was driven in to the workshop and had absolutely no throttle related problems.
(I used 20 W 50 grade engine oil).
The problem arises is when accelerated. Black smoke, an initial reluctance to accelerate & then the engine cuts off. It made a loud sound(just once) that the mechanic calls backfire. The car then does not start unless I clean the 4 plugs. None of them were visibly wet. Just black soot.
1. What could be the problem?
About 2 decades ago, the electrical fuel pump was removed(importing one was a nightmare back then) & replaced with a mechanical one sourced from an old Fiat 1100. It has run 20Kms recently, so it's definitely working. There were no fuel overflow 2 years ago, but when started after a 2 year gap, the float chamber was overflowing myteriously. The float was adjusted & the overflow has stopped. My only concern is that the pressure it generates is different from the one the Morris used. Hence the float valve setting in my case will be different from what the Workshop Manual states.
My logic is that the float at the back of your toilet has to be adjusted differently when under high pressure to maintain the same water level. Same applies here perhaps
I saw the video below. The video portion I'm referring to is the 6 seconds (0:22 to 0:28)
Code: Select all
www.youtube.com/watch?v=60Bj_2cZQncMany thanks.
Re: Running rich, wet plugs
Just to add...
When the car wasn't starting about 6 months back at the workshop, the problem was identified as randomness in spark. The problem was identified by an electrician as there being a short circuit in the distributor i.e. the wire from the ignition coil through the points & then grounded. The contact points & the condenser were replaced by him.
The mechanic thinks that the new contact points might have not had their gap set properly & intends to check the gap with a feeler gauge later today.
When the car wasn't starting about 6 months back at the workshop, the problem was identified as randomness in spark. The problem was identified by an electrician as there being a short circuit in the distributor i.e. the wire from the ignition coil through the points & then grounded. The contact points & the condenser were replaced by him.
The mechanic thinks that the new contact points might have not had their gap set properly & intends to check the gap with a feeler gauge later today.
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myoldjalopy
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Re: Running rich, wet plugs
Seem to be a number of things going on here. If you have cured the overflowing float chamber and adjusted the mixture so that the black smoke is gone, and there are still problems, it may be ignition related.
Wet plugs indicate an over-rich mixture, but could be a lack of spark. Sooty plugs could also indicate a rich mixture. But if you have now adjusted the mixture, maybe there is insufficient spark - and the diagnosis of 'random sparking' and replacement of points and condensor may be where to look now. If the points are not correctly adjusted it could lead to the type of problems you have.
I don't think the ignition light has anything to do with your issues. It is quite normal to glow on tickover, but should go out on revving the engine a bit.
If the points are re-set correctly, see if the plugs are sparking properly. With a plug removed from the engine, then reconnected to its HT lead and held (with insulated pliers) about a quarter of an inch from the engine block, there shoud be a good blue spark. Check each plug in turn. If only some of the plugs spark properly, the others may be faulty (although you say they are new plugs), or their HT leads are perished. Or there may be a fault in the distributer cap. If you get a good spark with the HT king lead tested in the same way, but not at the plugs, suspect something in the distributor.
Wet plugs indicate an over-rich mixture, but could be a lack of spark. Sooty plugs could also indicate a rich mixture. But if you have now adjusted the mixture, maybe there is insufficient spark - and the diagnosis of 'random sparking' and replacement of points and condensor may be where to look now. If the points are not correctly adjusted it could lead to the type of problems you have.
I don't think the ignition light has anything to do with your issues. It is quite normal to glow on tickover, but should go out on revving the engine a bit.
If the points are re-set correctly, see if the plugs are sparking properly. With a plug removed from the engine, then reconnected to its HT lead and held (with insulated pliers) about a quarter of an inch from the engine block, there shoud be a good blue spark. Check each plug in turn. If only some of the plugs spark properly, the others may be faulty (although you say they are new plugs), or their HT leads are perished. Or there may be a fault in the distributer cap. If you get a good spark with the HT king lead tested in the same way, but not at the plugs, suspect something in the distributor.
Re: Running rich, wet plugs
I take it you mean that he choke cable was replacd,not removed as you say,is the fault when hot or cold.Has the air filter been changed recently.has the distributor been turned one way or another.
Re: Running rich, wet plugs
Hi
Thanks myoldjalopy, kennatt.
@myoldjalopy
1. Is there any merit to those 6 seconds in the video?
The following are brand new:- 4 plugs, points, condenser & distributor cap. (I put a new distributor cap just to be 100% sure. There's no change in the symptoms with the new one).
Yes there are other problems for which I brought at electrician. He was checking to see if the dynamo was generating enough power. If indeed the red ignition bulb is glowing extra bright. He replaced the brushes from the dynamo since one was getting stuck. But I want the car to be able to rev. The basic problem is that excluding the lights(head & tail) the ignition, the oil pressure sensor worked. Oil pressure now does not go off(might be just the sensor got spoilt). I want to take this step by step & solve this mess created by the foolish workshop. Starting with the black smoke/ acceleration issue.
I'll take a closer look at the other things you mentioned.
@kennatt
Instead of importing a new one, I intend to put one from a scooterette/bike.
The climate here is tropical & warm. There isn't really a need to use it. At present temperature is 34C, sunny, during the day. The car(when plugs are cleaned off the soot) starts instantly.
2. Would you advise me changing it?
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According to the workshop manual the gap of the points should be .014 to .016in(.36 to .40 mm). I have 3 feeler gauge strips .35, .40 and .45 mm. The .40 enters snugly while the .45 one enters if it is forced in. I think the point gap is OK.
Many thanks.
Thanks myoldjalopy, kennatt.
@myoldjalopy
Yes the mysterious overflow has now stopped after the float adjustment. But the thought that crossed in my mind after watching 6 seconds of that YouTube video(previous post) is that the level of fuel sitting inside the float chamber definitely is below the overflow. But it might be higher than the level of the jet. (I'm using a Fiat fuel pump which might be sending fuel at a higher pressure than that of the Morris one)If you have cured the overflowing float chamber and adjusted the mixture
1. Is there any merit to those 6 seconds in the video?
The car wasn't even starting then. That problem was fixed by fixing the short circuit inside the distributor & the car startedand the diagnosis of 'random sparking'
The following are brand new:- 4 plugs, points, condenser & distributor cap. (I put a new distributor cap just to be 100% sure. There's no change in the symptoms with the new one).
Yes there are other problems for which I brought at electrician. He was checking to see if the dynamo was generating enough power. If indeed the red ignition bulb is glowing extra bright. He replaced the brushes from the dynamo since one was getting stuck. But I want the car to be able to rev. The basic problem is that excluding the lights(head & tail) the ignition, the oil pressure sensor worked. Oil pressure now does not go off(might be just the sensor got spoilt). I want to take this step by step & solve this mess created by the foolish workshop. Starting with the black smoke/ acceleration issue.
I'll take a closer look at the other things you mentioned.
@kennatt
Well since you asked...The part 'Throttle / Accelerator Cable Housing-Fits to Bulkhead' had one of it's nuts stuck at the end of the screw. I had wanted to remove it to fit a new accelerator grommet rubber. A novice at the workshop utilized an angle grinder to cut that offending screw. He did the job for sure, but grazed the bulkhead leaving a tiny hole and nicked the choke cable. Goodbye choke cable!I take it you mean that he choke cable was replacd,not removed as you say,
Instead of importing a new one, I intend to put one from a scooterette/bike.The climate here is tropical & warm. There isn't really a need to use it.
At present temperature is 34C, sunny, during the day. The car(when plugs are cleaned off the soot) starts instantly.I kept it warming at idling for 2 minutes, before attempting to accelerate. (For the past many decades, it has been driven without problems after warming up for just 30 seconds).is the fault when hot or cold.
No. When the car was driven in to the workshop 2 years ago it had no engine problems. It has since then traveled only 20Kms. I have a new spare one with me.Has the air filter been changed recently.
2. Would you advise me changing it?
Yes, the mechanic thought that something might have got stuck in there. With the engine running he turned it back & forth.has the distributor been turned one way or another.
--------------
According to the workshop manual the gap of the points should be .014 to .016in(.36 to .40 mm). I have 3 feeler gauge strips .35, .40 and .45 mm. The .40 enters snugly while the .45 one enters if it is forced in. I think the point gap is OK.
Many thanks.
Re: Running rich, wet plugs
ok well even in a warm climate I would think that a small amount of choke would be needed initially...... BUT are you saying that the oil light now stays on all the time(Bearing in mind your first post re the car being run with low oil and was knocking) is it now still knocking.It would really be wise to have the oil pressure tested.before pushing it hard.
But to get it running ,When HOT just turn the nut on the carb down one flat try it if no difference or the same turn it back up two flats try it again(Two to take it past the initial setting). if no difference or worse take it back to initial. Mark the position of the distributor in relation to the engine(Spot of white paint) slacken the pinch bolt that holds the distributor to the engine just enough so that it holds but you can just move it by hand,take the car out,stop and slightly turn the dist. anti clockwise,just a few mill,try it if worse turn it back past the mark the otherway try it again ,if better on the first turn do it again and keep doing it and trying until you hear a slight tinckling,ticking sound when you accelerate(pinking) When you get the pinking turn it back slightly until it stops doing it. Also just change or take out ,to try,the filter. To check the fuel level undo the three screws that hold the piston chamber on the carb and lift the whole assembly slowly out of the carb ,atch you don't drop or damage the needle.have a look down and you should see the fuel just below the jet at the base of the carb if the level is ok it should be just below the lip of the jet. don't forget to retighten the dist. GOOD luck
But to get it running ,When HOT just turn the nut on the carb down one flat try it if no difference or the same turn it back up two flats try it again(Two to take it past the initial setting). if no difference or worse take it back to initial. Mark the position of the distributor in relation to the engine(Spot of white paint) slacken the pinch bolt that holds the distributor to the engine just enough so that it holds but you can just move it by hand,take the car out,stop and slightly turn the dist. anti clockwise,just a few mill,try it if worse turn it back past the mark the otherway try it again ,if better on the first turn do it again and keep doing it and trying until you hear a slight tinckling,ticking sound when you accelerate(pinking) When you get the pinking turn it back slightly until it stops doing it. Also just change or take out ,to try,the filter. To check the fuel level undo the three screws that hold the piston chamber on the carb and lift the whole assembly slowly out of the carb ,atch you don't drop or damage the needle.have a look down and you should see the fuel just below the jet at the base of the carb if the level is ok it should be just below the lip of the jet. don't forget to retighten the dist. GOOD luck
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myoldjalopy
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Re: Running rich, wet plugs
Given that the car has had problems after standing idle for a couple of years and (assuming no-one had fiddled with any of the settings in the meantime) my guess is that the overflowing float chamber was caused by a sticking float valve, which was rectified when you took the float apart. Following that train of thought, the carb itself may be a bit gummed up and not operating properly.
If the Fiat pump has been OK for two decades, its unlikely to be that causing your current problems. So, as long as the pump is pumping sufficent fuel and the float valve is shutting off correctly, then rich running (indicated by sooty plugs) is likely the carb adjustment (as Kennat suggests) or the carb needle itself is sticking (remove and clean piston chamber and needle carefully), or the air filter is too dirty and choking off the air supply (so try running without filter as also suggested). But the oil light remaining on is not a good sign and I would get the pressure checked asap, especially after the reports of knocking noises. The fact that the carb dashpot plunger only creates resistance 'about 65% of the time' doesn't seem right either and I would take another look at this after cleaning the piston chamber and needle.
If the Fiat pump has been OK for two decades, its unlikely to be that causing your current problems. So, as long as the pump is pumping sufficent fuel and the float valve is shutting off correctly, then rich running (indicated by sooty plugs) is likely the carb adjustment (as Kennat suggests) or the carb needle itself is sticking (remove and clean piston chamber and needle carefully), or the air filter is too dirty and choking off the air supply (so try running without filter as also suggested). But the oil light remaining on is not a good sign and I would get the pressure checked asap, especially after the reports of knocking noises. The fact that the carb dashpot plunger only creates resistance 'about 65% of the time' doesn't seem right either and I would take another look at this after cleaning the piston chamber and needle.
Re: Running rich, wet plugs
if you clean the piston/chamber just use petrol or carb cleaner don't be tempted to polish with anything abrasive,it can cause problems with the function of the system
Re: Running rich, wet plugs
Hi
Thanks myoldjalopy, kennatt.
The following are the actions that were carried out by me prior to reading the last 2 replies by both of you.
I cleaned the 4 plugs. Plug no. 4 had virtually no soot. Took out the air filter, float chamber lid(with float), carb top along with the needle
@kennat
The mechanic & me wanted to visually inspect, as per your advice below: That hole is pretty tiny. The mechanic touched his finger & it was dry. As I write this, I'm wondering if the petrol at the jet lip had evaporated as 22 hrs had lapsed, since last started. The petrol level in float chamber seems to be the level of the jet though(rough visual estimate).
I caught the needle between the two fingers of my free hand & moved to the tip to remove any dirt.
We put the float lid & the piston back in place. Took out the rocker cover to see if engine oil is circulating there. (Air filter housing stayed off)
I gave it a start. We were both elated to hear the engine both idling & accelerating well.
(Oil droplets from the rockers were spraying around as well as there being a steady drops falling from front hole). We turned it off after about 3 minutes. I then went out to fetch the electrician as there were some jobs to be done.
I returned within half an hour with the electrician. The mechanic had started it about 4 minutes prior to my return. I was disappointed to see the return of the black smoke and rare backfires.
We decided to keep the engine running whilst the electrician was examining the problem of the red ignition light not going off or glowing even brighter when raced. He advised me that the 'points' in the "Regulator Box (Late Push-On Terminal Type)" were uneven(not flat). Since I had a new one with me I went out to bring it.
On my return I got down to doing the rigmarole of cleaning the sooty plugs whilst he replaced the regulator box. I also put in a new air filter and re-fitted the housing back on.
I started the car to examine the ignition light. It was going off now. Just to be sure I brought down the idling speed & was happy to see it glowing dimly.
Just then the mechanic reported that the float chamber had started to overflow. A return of the problem that was fixed 2 months ago & the car was even driven.
The mechanic hadn't fiddled with the float level setting but merely taken off the float chamber lid today.
He also told me that he had taken off the Fiat mechanical fuel pump a few months ago to see why it wasn't sending fuel. My guess is that since the petrol tank was removed & emptied there might have been an air pocket along the way once it was re-filled..
Many thanks
Thanks myoldjalopy, kennatt.
The following are the actions that were carried out by me prior to reading the last 2 replies by both of you.
I cleaned the 4 plugs. Plug no. 4 had virtually no soot. Took out the air filter, float chamber lid(with float), carb top along with the needle
@kennat
The mechanic & me wanted to visually inspect, as per your advice below:
We could see no fuel in there.you should see the fuel just below the jet at the base of the carb if the level is ok it should be just below the lip of the jet.
That hole is pretty tiny. The mechanic touched his finger & it was dry. As I write this, I'm wondering if the petrol at the jet lip had evaporated as 22 hrs had lapsed, since last started. The petrol level in float chamber seems to be the level of the jet though(rough visual estimate).I caught the needle between the two fingers of my free hand & moved to the tip to remove any dirt.
We put the float lid & the piston back in place. Took out the rocker cover to see if engine oil is circulating there. (Air filter housing stayed off)
I gave it a start. We were both elated to hear the engine both idling & accelerating well.
(Oil droplets from the rockers were spraying around as well as there being a steady drops falling from front hole). We turned it off after about 3 minutes. I then went out to fetch the electrician as there were some jobs to be done.I returned within half an hour with the electrician. The mechanic had started it about 4 minutes prior to my return. I was disappointed to see the return of the black smoke and rare backfires.
We decided to keep the engine running whilst the electrician was examining the problem of the red ignition light not going off or glowing even brighter when raced. He advised me that the 'points' in the "Regulator Box (Late Push-On Terminal Type)" were uneven(not flat). Since I had a new one with me I went out to bring it.
On my return I got down to doing the rigmarole of cleaning the sooty plugs whilst he replaced the regulator box. I also put in a new air filter and re-fitted the housing back on.
I started the car to examine the ignition light. It was going off now. Just to be sure I brought down the idling speed & was happy to see it glowing dimly.
Just then the mechanic reported that the float chamber had started to overflow. A return of the problem that was fixed 2 months ago & the car was even driven.
The mechanic hadn't fiddled with the float level setting but merely taken off the float chamber lid today.He also told me that he had taken off the Fiat mechanical fuel pump a few months ago to see why it wasn't sending fuel. My guess is that since the petrol tank was removed & emptied there might have been an air pocket along the way once it was re-filled..
Many thanks
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myoldjalopy
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Re: Running rich, wet plugs
Hmmmm, by now so many things have been 'adjusted' (float setting, carb mixture, dizzy position, points) and we can't be sure from a distance that they have been adjusted correctly.
The overflowing float again is likely a sticking needle valve caused by dirt in the fuel line, or gummy deposits. The float needle, seat and float chamber need cleaning - or replacement. If there is dirt in the fuel tank this problem will recurr. Does the pump have a filter? The Minor one does, but I don't know about Fiat pumps.
Black smoke again shows too much fuel getting through. That could be caused by the sticking float valve. Or carb adjusted too rich - or a sticky carb piston. So, I would re-check the cleanliness of the float chamber and valve, and the piston and chamber.
Backfiring can be caused by many things - ignition, fuel or valve issues. Just a thought - are the plug gaps set correctly (25 thou)? What plugs are they?
I would check the plugs are sparking properly (as suggested earlier) to eliminate the ignition system. Then clean and re-set the carb float and piston components, making sure the dashpot has sufficient oil. You could try running the engine with a fuel feed direct to the pump from a fresh can of petrol to eliminate dirt/water in the fuel tank/line causing problems (obviously take all safety precautions).
The overflowing float again is likely a sticking needle valve caused by dirt in the fuel line, or gummy deposits. The float needle, seat and float chamber need cleaning - or replacement. If there is dirt in the fuel tank this problem will recurr. Does the pump have a filter? The Minor one does, but I don't know about Fiat pumps.
Black smoke again shows too much fuel getting through. That could be caused by the sticking float valve. Or carb adjusted too rich - or a sticky carb piston. So, I would re-check the cleanliness of the float chamber and valve, and the piston and chamber.
Backfiring can be caused by many things - ignition, fuel or valve issues. Just a thought - are the plug gaps set correctly (25 thou)? What plugs are they?
I would check the plugs are sparking properly (as suggested earlier) to eliminate the ignition system. Then clean and re-set the carb float and piston components, making sure the dashpot has sufficient oil. You could try running the engine with a fuel feed direct to the pump from a fresh can of petrol to eliminate dirt/water in the fuel tank/line causing problems (obviously take all safety precautions).
Re: Running rich, wet plugs
its possible that the fiat pump doesn't have a filter as the original morris had,just fit an inline filter between the pump and the carb,if you don't you will probably always have trouble with the float valve sticking,its also possible that the fiat pump is a short draw from the tank and a long push to the carb type,there are pressure differences ,the morris is a long draw from the tank and a short push type. It could be wise to get the correct type,mind you say its been ok before.so could be ok
Re: Running rich, wet plugs
Thanks @kennatt, myoldjalopy
Hope this YouTube video helps
(It was taken yesterday after running the engine for about 15 minutes, hence warm. Today the mechanic tried to rotate the distributor anti-clockwise & the sound did seem to improve.)
Please don't worry about the little louder sound. The mechanic says there is a smoke leak near the exhaust clamp. ('Exhaust Paste' is available on ESM spares in the UK, but doesn't seem available here, I need to do a more in depth search perhaps, later).
Yes, I'm getting good brown spark when each plug is kept at a distance of quarter of an inch from the block. I put a new ignition coil, but no change.
The plugs are 'Champion N10 YC Copper Plus' all brand new. (Have been using this type for over 2 decades with no problems). Oops I forgot to check the plug gaps(haven't changed the gap).
1. What do you think?
Hope this YouTube video helps
Code: Select all
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uuydo-2_9oPlease don't worry about the little louder sound. The mechanic says there is a smoke leak near the exhaust clamp. ('Exhaust Paste' is available on ESM spares in the UK, but doesn't seem available here, I need to do a more in depth search perhaps, later).
Yes, I'm getting good brown spark when each plug is kept at a distance of quarter of an inch from the block. I put a new ignition coil, but no change.
The plugs are 'Champion N10 YC Copper Plus' all brand new. (Have been using this type for over 2 decades with no problems). Oops I forgot to check the plug gaps(haven't changed the gap).
1. What do you think?
Re: Running rich, wet plugs
sounds like you need a rebuild,think I can hear the bearings ,as per original post,any engine that has been run without oil and has started to knock and rumble,will, unless you are one of the extremely lucky ones, need a strip down to examine the big end and main bearings,the longer you run it the more damage will be caused to the crank shaft,and con rods. obviously a recording is not as reliable as in front of you but sounds a bit sick to my ear. You can't just turn dist with vehicle parked you need to drive it and move dist until you hear a tinkling sound then turn it back . also same with mixture screw drive it alter it until improvement. Sorry to be a bit negative good luck
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myoldjalopy
- Minor Legend
- Posts: 2585
- Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:32 pm
- Location: Kernow
- MMOC Member: Yes
Re: Running rich, wet plugs
Sorry to hear your car problems are continuing.
'Standard' plugs for a Minor would be Champion N9Y. N10 is a slightly 'hotter' plug but I doubt would cause the problems you have been having, especially as you say you have been using these without issue for decades.
I would expect a blue, or even white, spark at the plugs, rather than a 'brown' one. See what the spark from the king lead is like - is that better than the 'brown' spark at the points?
However, as kennat says, the engine doesn't sound healthy. A knocking noise and the oil light not going out are ominous signals for the engine's condition and this does need looking at. You really do need a compression test and an oil pressure test.
With all the problems you have been having, I'm beginning to think you ought to find another mechanic who has more experience of these engines and can give a better diagnosis through undertaking methodical checks than we can at a distance.
'Standard' plugs for a Minor would be Champion N9Y. N10 is a slightly 'hotter' plug but I doubt would cause the problems you have been having, especially as you say you have been using these without issue for decades.
I would expect a blue, or even white, spark at the plugs, rather than a 'brown' one. See what the spark from the king lead is like - is that better than the 'brown' spark at the points?
However, as kennat says, the engine doesn't sound healthy. A knocking noise and the oil light not going out are ominous signals for the engine's condition and this does need looking at. You really do need a compression test and an oil pressure test.
With all the problems you have been having, I'm beginning to think you ought to find another mechanic who has more experience of these engines and can give a better diagnosis through undertaking methodical checks than we can at a distance.
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oliver90owner
- Minor Legend
- Posts: 1679
- Joined: Thu May 12, 2016 6:33 am
- MMOC Member: No
Re: Running rich, wet plugs
I'm in agreement with kennatt.
Engine will likely be scrap if you continue to run it in that condition. Crank may well require a regrind, or may be scrap already. 'Putting a legout of bed' would likely total it. Dismantle, diagnose and repair NOW! Do not continue to run it in that condition. Metal may well already be circulating around the engine with the oil.
Running rich and wet plugs are the least of your problems. Ignore that aspect and get dismantling, preferably by a competent mechanic, not the one you are currently employing!
Engine will likely be scrap if you continue to run it in that condition. Crank may well require a regrind, or may be scrap already. 'Putting a legout of bed' would likely total it. Dismantle, diagnose and repair NOW! Do not continue to run it in that condition. Metal may well already be circulating around the engine with the oil.
Running rich and wet plugs are the least of your problems. Ignore that aspect and get dismantling, preferably by a competent mechanic, not the one you are currently employing!