Ectoplasm in fuel!

[surfergirl]

Hi Folks,
I think I already know the answer but other opinions welcome.
Broke down the other day, cut out on a hill and wouldnt restart, so been working through possibles. Just checked fuel filters and found goo in both fuel pump and carb. Some of it in the float chamber is like a jelly, so could it be water in the tank? also red wet sediment in the bottom of filters (rust from the tank breaking down)

I know inline filters are frowned on but as a temp measure until I can get a new van tank (anyone got one?) Would a filter fittted just after the tank in the back help, its easy to lift a board in the van and replace it as and when.
Heres some pics.[frame][/frame][frame][/frame][frame][/frame]
The fuel pump is new from Bullmotif.

Just looked at the price of a new tank online, wish I hadnt now!

[IslipMinor]

The red substance could be tetraethyl lead, the 'lead' in leaded petrol? I have seen a similar presence in the fuel system before, but many years ago. Rust is likely to be more orange and in larger 'flakes' than the red paste in the photo.

In-line filters may be 'frowned on' by some, but I have had them for many years with absolutely no problems at all and would certainly not want unfiltered fuel arriving at the pump - yes is has a fine(ish) gauze filter, but that would not trap what you have there. Hence the presence in the float chamber itself.

If it were mine I would clean everything out thoroughly, install an inline filter and keep a check on what it collects, and what arrives in the float chamber. You may be pleasantly surprised if the fuel system hasn't been cleaned out for a long while.

[bmcecosse]

The possible problem with an inline filter before the pump is that in hot weather it may 'strangle' the flow of fuel to a possibly weak pump -causing a fit of 'the vapours'. However - it's hardly warm weather at the moment -so as above , flush out and by all means try a filter. Water in the fuel can be absorbed by adding some methylated spirit - but I would try draining the tank first. However - if the drain plug seems tight - take care - it could rip out of the tank .....

[amgrave]

You can buy and fit a glass water trap and it would look period too as they have been fitted for many years to different vehicles. Water will drop to the bottom of a glass bowl and would be visible you then drop the bowl off and clean it then replace. Fit it just after the pump. Easy and convenient. Best to do as above first though and drain the tank. The "new" fuel will produce water if left in the tank for longer than three months so it's better now to keep a small amount in and top up more often than fill the tank and run for a long time. Super Unleaded is not so bad and will last longer without producing water.

[bmcecosse]

There is a view that the 'water' comes from condensation from air on the uncovered surfaces of the tank - and so it may be best to keep the tank 'full' with as little air as possible in the tank.

[amgrave]

From what I have read up on the "new fuel" the ethanol now in it attracts water to it a bit like salt so the water is normally there but the addition of ethanol attracts it and it then settles at the bottom of your tank instead of the moisture being scattered about, if you see what I mean.

[surfergirl]

Just been reading about Ethenol in new fuels I didnt realise it was in there.
This is from moss motors:

The key problem is that ethanol absorbs water from the atmosphere. In fact, fuel with 10 percent ethanol absorbs up to 50 times more water than standard gasoline. Older gas tanks found in many classic cars vent to the atmosphere, increasing the likelihood that moisture will be absorbed into the gas tank at a rapid pace.

Reading some old posts on fuel filters, one problem is they can clog up within a few miles if the tank is bad.

[amgrave]

"Reading some old posts on fuel filters, one problem is they can clog up within a few miles if the tank is bad"

which is why I suggest a drop bowl, it does not filter the fuel but anything in it heavier will fall to the bottom including water and bits of muck.

[bmcecosse]

The ethanol (and meths I suggested) should hold the moisture in solution - and it should be drawn through and burned with the petrol.

[surfergirl]

Thanks for the ideas,
Been looking online for a drop bowl and cant find one anyone know where to get one?

[MarkyB]

Here are a couple;
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VINTAGE-FUEL- ... Sw585WUJwt

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fuel-Tank-Wat ... Swv0tVEWCB


Don't forget to blow through the pipe that leads to the main jet when you are clening the carb.

[surfergirl]

Thanks for the links to the filters, does that fit best in the engine bay before the carb or just after the tank?
Any probs with vapour locks in the summer?
Thanks.

[bmcecosse]

After the pump should not give trouble in hot weather - but of course doesn't protect the pump filter. Before the pump - well - if it's 'just' a glass sump it shouldn't cause problems - although if you fit it down near the tank - it may be vulnerable to damage. It has to be said - the SU carb is very tolerant of anything coming through with the fuel - and if suspected of giving a problem is easily cleared by a good old rev up and then clamp hand over the carb intake. It will (within reason) suck up anything in the float bowl.

[chickenjohn]

Hi Folks,
I think I already know the answer but other opinions welcome.
Broke down the other day, cut out on a hill and wouldnt restart, so been working through possibles. Just checked fuel filters and found goo in both fuel pump and carb. Some of it in the float chamber is like a jelly, so could it be water in the tank? also red wet sediment in the bottom of filters (rust from the tank breaking down)

I know inline filters are frowned on but as a temp measure until I can get a new van tank (anyone got one?) Would a filter fittted just after the tank in the back help, its easy to lift a board in the van and replace it as and when.
Heres some pics.[frame][/frame][frame][/frame][frame][/frame]
The fuel pump is new from Bullmotif.

Just looked at the price of a new tank online, wish I hadnt now!

This is due to ethanol in fuel due to the modern ridiculous environmental policies.

Best thing for your car is run it on Leaded four star (if available, but expensive!) failling that super unleaded does not (yet) contain ethanol so run her on that!

[chickenjohn]

The possible problem with an inline filter before the pump is that in hot weather it may 'strangle' the flow of fuel to a possibly weak pump -causing a fit of 'the vapours'. However - it's hardly warm weather at the moment -so as above , flush out and by all means try a filter. Water in the fuel can be absorbed by adding some methylated spirit - but I would try draining the tank first. However - if the drain plug seems tight - take care - it could rip out of the tank .....

No this won't work at all!!! (another to add to the list of bad ideas!) It is the presence of alcohols in modern fuels that carry the water into your tank. Adding more alcohol will do nothing to prevent the corrosion you are seeing and will not remove the water.

Only using superunleaded will avoid this problem or adding an anti ethanol corrosion additive to the tank at each fill. (assuming they work as advertised that is!)

[bmcecosse]

Sorry - but you are wrong - it's very standard procedure to add Meths to remove loose water from the fuel. There are limits of course - and it's not suggested as an every day procedure - just a 'one off' treatment. And it is well known that condensation on the roof the tank (due to breathing in moist air) - is the major source of water in the fuel. It also explains why the roof the tank tends to rust out in pin holes.... I object strongly to your 'list of bad ideas' comment - no need to get personal on the forum. I actually sometimes see some strange ideas coming from you!

[surfergirl]

Thanks for all the replies, It does show how running a classic is getting slightly more complex than it used to be. You used to put petrol in and go, back in the day! Ah well you cant halt progress.
Santas bringing a shiny new tank today from ESM as the old one is pretty cruddy and was fitted second hand years ago, only thing is its a bit cheaper cus its not painted, so easy to paint outside but what will the water in fuel do to the lovely new metal inside ?
Is there anything that I can slosh inside before the rust gets hold?

Tank has arrived while typing this and a label on it says the inside is rust treated and should be washed out before use (with what?)
Must say really quick service from ESM only ordered yesterday!

[bmcecosse]

Well done ! I would slosh out with a small amount of clean petrol - but why not just ask ESM ?

[surfergirl]

Thanks,
Good thinking, will ring em in the morrow, mind you a lot of suppliers now just send the parts and dont give advise.

[bmcecosse]

Hope the fuel pipe comes out the old tank without too much fuss .....