Where is the dipstick?

[TFM150K]

Bloke down the road (our type of person - his transport is an MGB roadster) has just bought a new Volvo for his missus who is a District Nurse and needs something reliable (well, new, anyway). When she got it home he opened the bonnet (well you would, wouldn't you). Loads of black plastic to hide the "works". Hole to put the coolant in. Hole to put the windscreen washer water in. Hole to put the oil in. No dipstick to be seen. At this stage I just happen to be walking past. "Come and have a look at this". It's not just him, I can't find a dipstick either - "Is there a book with it?" Yes there is and if you look in the right place it tells you that oil levels are controlled by one of the myriad of computers which run the show and lights will tell you if you are running out of oil.
We both agreed we would much rather have a dipstick.
And he is keeping quiet about it from now on. Think he feels a bit of a dipstick. Which is more than he will ever do under the bonnet of the new Volvo!

[GBond]

It's not just Volvos, some other makes are also coming without dipsticks.

While I get why they do it, most people never check the oil anyway and not having a dipstick removes one possible path for contamination to get to the oil, it would make me nervous not knowing after an oil change exactly how much oil is inside the engine. The computer will tell you if it's too low, but how do you know how to fill it juuust to the maximum level without going over? Not all the oil comes out of the sump so just measuring the quantity isn't enough in my mind.

[chesney]

Presumably it must tell you if it's overfilled too? Which can be as damaging as running low (in certain circumstances).
I don't know, modern technology I found out recently that coded batteries are in use, whereby only a dealer (or someone with the relevant equipment) can change the battery!

[kennatt]

its becoming stupid with all the electronics,some cars you can't change the brake pads without diagnostic plug in because you have to tell the system to wind the calipers back,can't be done any other way.On the wife's Nissan I accidently started the car after an air filter change and had forgotten to plug the air flow sensor back in. Car started to misfire. Ok so just plug it in. Not so.......because it had been run without,and was now looking for a NEW sensor,would't recognize the old one.After a lot of scratching about on the web.. Solution run the car on the motorway at a constant 60 for at least 30 miles and it will reset ,sure enough ran like a dog for 20 miles and started to smooth out after 30 now back to normal.I am told that they have realized they have gone too far and some are cutting back on all of this electronic cr....p.

[ianmack]

A neighbour with a large modern touched mirrors on a narrow road, not uncommon in rural areas. The new mirror,with heater, adjuster and indicator,cost over £300, plus several hours work to strip the door, fit and connect it. It then wouldn't work. The car had to be taken to a main agent and plugged in to a computer to tell the cars computer that there was a new mirror and would it please work it. Madness!

[ianmack]

Having said the above, could whoever does it move the site's clock forward please? We can't have the rest of the world thinking Morris owners are entirely out of touch!

[panky]

Thank goodness I decided to never own another 'modern' I'm happy with wires and pipes that I can see. My definition of a modern is anything that appears to be cleverer than me - mind you even the toaster is catching up with my limited grey matter

[GBond]

A neighbour with a large modern touched mirrors on a narrow road, not uncommon in rural areas. The new mirror,with heater, adjuster and indicator,cost over £300, plus several hours work to strip the door, fit and connect it. It then wouldn't work. The car had to be taken to a main agent and plugged in to a computer to tell the cars computer that there was a new mirror and would it please work it. Madness!

Hadn't heard of something like this but part of it makes sense as I'm guessing it was probably designed this way so that stolen mirrors can't be used so that's a good thing, assuming all dealers are instructed to do the "activation" free of charge after having checked the mirror isn't stolen. (This is hard but not unfeasible the system should have provision for when a car is written off that it's parts should become fair game, or for the car to "accept" any parts after becoming 20 years old or something like that and no longer so desirable.)

I still believe in working on my own cars though and I'm probably not alone so I imagine at least some manufacturer is going to see this opportunity and release cars that are simple to work on. (I believe Subaru are doing this, but haven't seen it for myself, and working on my sort-of-modern Seat has so far been pretty easy so not all is lost, and it does come with a dipstick!)

[TFM150K]

A neighbour with a large modern touched mirrors on a narrow road, not uncommon in rural areas. The new mirror,with heater, adjuster and indicator,cost over £300, plus several hours work to strip the door, fit and connect it. It then wouldn't work. The car had to be taken to a main agent and plugged in to a computer to tell the cars computer that there was a new mirror and would it please work it. Madness!

Hadn't heard of something like this but part of it makes sense as I'm guessing it was probably designed this way so that stolen mirrors can't be used so that's a good thing, assuming all dealers are instructed to do the "activation" free of charge after having checked the mirror isn't stolen. (This is hard but not unfeasible the system should have provision for when a car is written off that it's parts should become fair game, or for the car to "accept" any parts after becoming 20 years old or something like that and no longer so desirable.)

I still believe in working on my own cars though and I'm probably not alone so I imagine at least some manufacturer is going to see this opportunity and release cars that are simple to work on. (I believe Subaru are doing this, but haven't seen it for myself, and working on my sort-of-modern Seat has so far been pretty easy so not all is lost, and it does come with a dipstick!)

What is this "Free of charge" bit, Gabriel? you might get things done "free of charge" in Guatemala, but here in UK, main agents much prefer the term "Charge". And usually there is a Recommended charge (= minimum charge = quite a large charge + 20% tax). Why do you think they are making these cars so complex - they probably don't make a huge profit selling the cars in the first place but by goodness they make up for it later!

[GBond]

Not the changing just the "activation" bit mind. Wouldn't know about dealers since all I've ever trusted them for here in Guatemala has been for the car's first two oil changes and that's just not to lose the warranty. They're actually sometimes worse than independent mechanics and I've seen many cars ruined by dealers (or rather, distributors, since because of the size of the country many makes just have distributors, which aren't even endorsed by the manufacturer as dealers since they usually have terrible mechanics). Still, would be nice to see the manufacturers push the dealers to help their customers every once in a while, to make more sales.

I lived in Mexico some years ago, and Toyota was at the time still trying to gain market share. At this time mirror thefts were quite high as they're expensive to replace and easy to steal. What Toyota did was replace wing mirrors for free at all dealers (effectively making it worthless to steal them) and also introduced very cheap oil changes which some other brands have also since copied (in Mexico, Guatemala is still far behind on that). And it worked, you'd barely see any Toyotas on the street in Mexico 10 years ago and now they're everywhere, even if they're a bit more expensive than the competition.

It works out for the dealer as well, instead of making their money years down the line when the cars begin to require parts and service they make it up front when selling the car. Only wish this trend would catch on worldwide.

[ianmack]

Alternatively they could just make mirrors simple and cheap enough that no one wants to steal them in the first place.

[amgrave]

This thread topic is exactly why I bought a Minor.

I run a Hyundai Coupe from new and when I get in and drive it it's like putting a glove on. It's quiet, smooth with a very tractable engine goes right down to 20 MPH in top, ideal in town and when on the open road goes like stink. But when I lift the bonnet there's not much I recognize (it does have a dipstick though). It has abs and the sensor is on the back of the wheel bearing. To get the bearing off after a few years you have to destroy the sensor in the process. Brilliant eh. Ring main type electrics controlled by the electronics and many other modern foibles. If it goes wrong you have to have a computer to find the fault.

Give me a Minor any day. If it goes wrong I can usually diagnose the problem in minutes and fix it myself. Even something serious is not really a big problem, it can be fixed for not too much and you can usually limp home if not too serious. You can even fit a few of the conveniences that come as standard on moderns if you want too.

When the modern goes wrong and either I can't fix it or it will cost to much to have it repaired it will go to the scrappy and I will have the warm feeling of the Minor taking over it's place and lasting for a long time afterwards.

[kennatt]

even with a computor you invariably still don't know what the fault is,our Nissan keeps throwing up a fault that shows as weak mixture detected on 1st bank.so it could be,the maf sensor,o2 sensor lambda or egr,each costs an arm and a leg,change one may still be there.so the light stays on fortunately not part of mot YET

[SteveClem]

It's just rubbish isn't it? The pendulum will swing in the future.All this clever computer stuff is ok up to a point but there's a lot to be said for simple. I'm not too bothered about things as basic as electric windows these days... Window winding is quite good exercise!

[amgrave]

And that doubles up as air-con I believe

[SteveClem]

Absolutely!

[morris van]

My sister bought a three year old Audi from a dealership two years ago and there no dipstick on that . She had owned it two weeks and the oil light came so it went back to the garage to have oil put in it then two weeks later it happened again . The third time it melted the pistons and had to have an engine rebuild and when they pulled on to my sisters drive after having the engine rebuild the light came on a fourth time and I said just reject the car but she still has it.

[minor65]

I would imagine that the car has as multifunction computer built into the clocks / combi unit. Which can be worked through the radio or steering wheel controls. I work in a vw retailer and models such as the phaeton do not have a dipstick, they are monitored through the dash. The cars handbook pack would be the first place to start to find the info. In any case the oil level low light should come on if there is 3/4 of a litre required.

[morris van]

My brother in law also has an Audi he has just complete engine failure and every light that could come on came on all of a sudden , luckily its under warranty as its only 2 years old and done only 20000 miles . When he spoke to a friend she said the company she worked for had Audis and they were forever going wrong .

[SteveClem]

I hope Audi brakes are reliable. There usually seems to be one about six inches off my rear bumper.