lights

[moggyminor16]

hi all
i have a 2 door 1961 saloon moggy .at the rear it has the all in one light ,indector side and stop in one blub .now i wanted to change them to the new moggy ones that are seprot indector and tail lights ,but undoing the rear light i noticed it has only got 3 wires one of them being the earth .
so not a porblem until i looked at the newer ones thay have 4 wires ,including the eairth
so what im hoping is that could some one out there give me a detailed distcription on how to wire them in with the colours as well .
i want to change them as i have to drive her all the time and when you have a 40 foot lorry up your bum an you need to trun its not that easy for them to see the red flashing
thanks all
moggyminor16

1966 traveller now running
1961 salonn 2 door

[rayofleamington]

when you have a 40 foot lorry up your bum an you need to trun its not that easy for them to see

Well - maybe you should mount some signals on the roof - pesky lorries ;-)

To convert to flashing orange indicators you need to wire up a complete additional circuit with flasher unit etc. You will also need flashing orange indicators at the front too, otherwise the flasher will not work correctly (unless you find a non standard flasher unit that will work just 1 bulb)

Assuming negative earth:
The power goes from the +ve side (best to use the same terminal on the fusebox as the later cars) , through the flasher unit (the flasher unit sometimes needs to be earthed and is often mounted on the bulkhead near the fusebox) and then to the indicator switch. At the switch, it connects to either the left or the right side wiring. Then you take this wiring and run a piece to the front and rear (two seperate circuits - one for the left and one for the right). This goes to the indicator bulb and then to earth via bulb holder on the front (or via the cluster earth wire on the rear)

Personally I think the flashing brake lights are fine (and a very nice period feature) - if it was that dangerous, then the yanks would not be using it on their millions and millions of cars.... Although when you get hassled by other traffic and bad drivers I can understand where the paranoia comes from.

[Alec]

Hello MM,
just to let you know you can buy the correct colour and size of cable by the metre and also the non adhesive wiring loom tape (Don't try with insulating tape, it will not lie very neatly, unless you are blessed with exceptional patience) Holden or Vehicle Wiring Products can supply what you need.

Alec

[woo]

moggyminor16

I got round this problem by adding additional orange flashers below my rear bumper leaving my original rear lights/indicators as they were. With this method the new flashers flash in time with the brake lights.

To do it you need to be able to wire up two small relays. I bought mine from Maplin Electronics. They are 12 volt 2 amp Circuit board mounting types. It could be argued that a bigger relay is needed, but I've had mine in use for two years now without problems. If you can find a 3amp relay then use it instead.

The idea I came up with was to run extra wires from the front flasher outputs on the 8-way Lucas flasher relay. Number 6 feeds the right hand front flasher and number 2 feeds the left hand front flasher. The extra wires go to the new relays and are connected to the terminal that triggers the relay contacts, so that when the front light flashes the relay operates. This doesn’t seem to put too much of an extra load on the Terminals. I then connected one relay contact (the normally open one) to the battery live side and the other contact to the new rear flasher light bulb. So when the front flasher operates, the new rear flasher flashes at the same time.

To provide visible evidence that the relay was working ok, I connected a 12 volt LED (again from Maplins) with one wire connected to the relay terminal that goes to the rear flasher light bulb and the other wire to the car body (Earth). The LEDs only work one way (they have a long and a short wire and I can't remember for the moment which way round they go) so you'll need to experiment which way round to connect them.

I know this definitely works!

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This next bit is theoretical and I haven’t done it. While I don't foresee any problems occuring I can't be held responsible if they do. So make sure that you are happy to experiment before you do anything yourself.

If you want to use new clusters, you will want to stop the brake lights flashing in your new rear lamp unit. (I haven't bothered because I want to leave my units as original as possible) Looking at the wiring diagram for the Lucas 8 way flasher relay, Terminal 1 has a Green/Purple wire which comes from the Brake light switch. The Lucas unit uses this feed to flash the Rear brake lights that come out of terminals 3 and 7. Terminal 3 is White/Purple and goes to the Left rear light and Terminal 7 is White/Brown which goes to the Right rear light. You could try disconnecting the Brake light switch from Terminal 1 and at the rear cluster end connecting the wires from Terminals 5 and 7 to your new 21watt rear flasher bulbs. For the brake lights you could try running new wires connected to the Green/Purple wire that came off of Terminal 1 to the 21watt side of your rear lights. This will then connect the rear brake lights directly to the brake light switch so they dont flash.

[rayofleamington]

Hi Woo
I see your logic, and also think your solution is pretty neat (keeping the flashing brake light and adding rear orange indicators - never thought of that )
However if someone is going to use the later rear clusters I don't know what the MOT man would say as then they neither comply with the original spec or with the later spec - therefore to remove the flashing rear brake light function may be required. When doing that you suggestion sounds sensible but you are going to end up with a car that has wiring which is very non standard (even if it is cool to keep the original Lucas flasher box in use).
Therefore I'd be temted to do it just by using a flasher unit as per later cars (which would also be easy enough for most garages to work on in the future if it needed a repair at any time)

[woo]

Ray,

I used the first solution because I wanted to keep the car as origional as possible. The method described doesn't amend the cars original wiring, it is installed with bullet connectors and the rear indicators are held on by the original bumper bolts. This means that the whole system can be taken off in a few minutes to return the car to original specification. The only comment I have had in the last 3 MOTs was when an inspector wanted to fail it because 'a bad earth was making the brake light flash' Showing him the Lucas relay and explaining that the flashing brakelights was a transitional feature between trafficators and the later clusters cleared the issue. I explained what I had done to the other 2 inspectors before the test and they passed them without a problem.

If later model clusters are to be used then my second suggestion (if it works) would remove the brakelight function from the brake/flasher bulbs, enabling them to be re-utilised as indicators. The brakelights would be replaced by running new wiring from the brake switch to the rear cluster.

As I said, I haven't tried this but I plan to try it out by disconnecting terminal 1(***) and connecting a couple of 21watt bulb to terminals 3 and 7 on the Lucas box. I agree that if this works it will introduce non standard wiring and that keeping things traditional with another flasher bottle would make it easier for garage mechanics to work on it in the future, but it would be simple enough to make a note of the changes made and paste them onto the Lucas box (in some sort of polythene bag for protection) for future reference.

(***) I say terminal 1 because that's how my car is wired. The manual says terminal 5. but it's simple enough to see which is right for a car. If the flasher goes terminal 1 the brakelight is 5 and vise versa.

[woo]

Ray,

Last post on this else I'll be 'beating it to death'

I've just removed the brake light from terminal 5. The result is that the rear lights only flash. Which, I'm pleased to say, makes my second suggestion viable. Although your suggestion may be preferable. Either way means running a pair of wires to the rear of the car, to either power brakelights (my way) or flashers (your way)

[rayofleamington]

I used the first solution because I wanted to keep the car as origional as possible.

ss ok - I'm not dissagreeing ;-) Just offering a second solution. If it was my own car I'd probably use your solution