Morris does not start

[sansvalo]

Hello, I have solved all my engine problems some time ago (as well as the high, sluggish RPM, that was caused by the gas link pulley being completely rotten and dirty, and worked excellent after good clean).
After that I disconnected the battery, and started stripping car down. I took out the trunk, disconnected lamps, securing the wires. Then I took the doors.
Car was starting OK, as usual let the engine work some time, before locking it up again.
Battery was disconnected again. I took the head lamps, and started to take the wings out.
Then I came to start the car next week as usual, and it's kind of dead. The heater and rest of the stuff is working, AMP meter is showing the amps on negative when I turn the key, and fuel pump gives 2-3 ticks as usual, but there is no starter motor response. I tried putting the different battery in, but it's still the same. Was there some kind of short circuit that blew it? Thank you for help!

[bmcecosse]

Sounds like flat battery -charge it up! Try pressing the rubber cover on the starter solenoid - does it spin up now?

[simmitc]

Given that you have tried two batteries, hopefully you have cjecked that they were charged? What year is the car - does it have a key start or a pull start? If a key start, then you might have dislodged the white/red wire that goes to the solenoid, that would prevent it from starting. Equally, the starter may be engaged and stuck. Can you turn the engine OK on the handle - that might free the starter. Indeed, can you start it with the handle?

[sansvalo]

Thank you for the answers.
The Morris battery was charged for about 9 hours before using, and other battery came from my daily car, it's usually well charged.
I tried pushing the solenoid and nothing happened.
This is the key start model, year 1963. It seems all wires are in position, I tried not to fiddle inside the bonnet while removing wings.
I don't have a handle, where can I find it?
Thank you.

[bmcecosse]

Check the cable from solenoid to starter is in place..... Can you turn the engine by hand, using the fan blades - with Ignition OFF of course!

[sansvalo]

Yes, the fan blade turns (neutral). Cable in place.

[bmcecosse]

Well - you need to inspect the starter motor, if nothing happens when you press the solenoid.

[simmitc]

You can purchase a starting handle from Club spares or many of the usual suppliers. It's a very useful piece of equipment

Do you have any jumps leads? If so, you can clip one end to the non-earthed terminal on the battery, and touch the other to the larger terminal on the solenoid that then goes direct to the starter motor. You need only the one lead. Be prepared for a spark, but it should bypass the solenoid and run the starter directly. I suggest trying this with the ignition OFF, just to see if the motor turns. Be careful to not touch the jump lead against any part of the engine or body, purely the terminal on the solenoid. Good luck, let us know what happens and we can work out where to go next.

I would have expected that the solenoid would go "click" when you turned the key, even if the motor did not turn.

[simmitc]

One other quick check that you could make is to run a smaller lead direct from the non-earth battery terminal to the spade terminal on the solenoid (where the white/red wire goes). As with the previous test, you need only to make a brief contact, and do not touch other metal parts. If the solenoid clicks and the starter turns, then there is a wiring problem with the ignition switch and starer circuit.

Just for info, is the car -ve or +ve earth, dynamo or alternator - don;t need to know specifically for starer problem, but background can can be helpful.

[sansvalo]

Hello, I bought the crank handle so far, still waiting for the leads. Car can't be crank started, and it feels quite stubborn to move (neutral, ignition on). I will hopefully run the lead tests tomorrow. Quite sad to see mog like this. But I start to suspect wires again as you suggest, remember it had a problem with battery not charging, mended by some morris centre. Car seems to be -ve earth, dynamo.

[sansvalo]

Ok, I ran the test with the leads. I touched the big terminal first (going directly to starter motor).
Starter motor turned with ignition off, and then car started with ignition on normally and ran on good idle.

Then I switched it off, and touched the red/white spade on solenoid. There was small spark on contact, but no response from starter motor.

Is the solenoid faulty?

[bmcecosse]

Seems like it - although worth checking if it is well earthed, although it did 'spark' so there must be some current flow.

[sansvalo]

Ok, so do you know what could cause the solenoid failure? Also, it it possible to fix old one? I don't want another one fried. How do I make sure it's well earthed? Thank you!

[bmcecosse]

Old solenoids go on for ever - modern replacements not so good..... It must be firmly bolted to good clean metal to ensure an earth path. But if pressing the black rubber end (is it that type?) does nothing - then it's failed.

[sansvalo]

Hmm that is not nice to hear. Is it safe to go without changing it at all? Car seems to run ok when ignited with leads.

Photos:
http://puu.sh/8CDQX.jpg
http://puu.sh/8CDSm.jpg
http://puu.sh/8CDT9.jpg

Wiring is in heavy mess, I guess I should buy new wires and exchange them all.

[bmcecosse]

Ahh - see - that's not an original solenoid......IS IT bolted to an earthed panel?? There is no 'push button' on these modern solenoids ... This is the sort of thing you should have..... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Classic-Start ... 27e31bb859 How would you manage without it??? Jump out with leads every time the engine stops?????

[sansvalo]

Yes, it seems to be bolted allright. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MORRIS-STARTE ... 3ce109892a is this one ok?
So far, I still got time to pick this up , as morris is being stripped to last bit and getting some new paint http://puu.sh/8Fby1.jpg .

[simmitc]

That one is a good type, but "untested" is taking a bit of a punt - it might be perfectly OK, or it might be as useful as your present one Over the years there were a few different styles fitted by the factory - exactly like yours; like yours, but with the small button in the centre; and like the ones in the ebay links. A new one is available from here: http://www.s-v-c.co.uk/product/solenoid ... cas-76464/

It sounds as though you have found the cause of your problem, now it's just a question of fitting the replacement. As Roy noted, the original units lasted for a great many years, new ones will probably have a shorter life.

[bmcecosse]

I would go with the one you have highlighted!