uprated brakes - front and rear.

[ColinChandler]

Hello everyone,
There's often talk of uprating front brakes - be it 9" Wolseley drums or discs - but not much about doing the rear brakes too. To me, it seems logical if you're putting larger Wolseley drums on the front, that you would put the matching rear brakes on too and maintain the front/rear balance. Is it necessary/sensible? Are the weights of a Morris and Wolseley in proportion? Any opinions or experience would be greatly appreciated.
Best wishes, Colin.

[bmcecosse]

The larger rear 8" Wolseley drums are an excellent upgrade - and makes handbrake turns an easy reality! There is a nice looking set on ebay right now........

[ColinChandler]

You read my mind.
Thanks for confirming its worth doing.
Cheers, Colin.

[chrisryder]

I find the standard rear brakes lock up all too easily as it is. I'd leave them alone unless going for a lot more power.

[bmcecosse]

They may tend to lock up if you have fitted disc brakes at the front - and are now having to put high pressure through the system to make the discs work....... Normally there is very little chance of the rears locking up under braking - except a 'crash stop' of course. The 8" rears are a perfect match for the 9" fronts.....DO IT. I have a set in my garage which I will get round to fitting 'soon'....I've been saying that for 4 years now..... but I WILL do it!

[philthehill]

I have Wolseley brakes on the back of my Minor which are completely in tune with the Marina disk brakes fitted to the front and there is no servo fitted so nicely balanced.
The only problem that I found when doing the conversion was the price of new brake wheel cylinders which I decided had to be fitted as the old ones were not serviceable. What the current availability of new wheel cylinders/repair kits is I do not know! I had to pay nearly £80 per cylinder for the privilege of having new. When I went to collect the new cylinders I was given all (which was quite a few) of the Wolseley NOS wheel cylinder service kits he had on the shelf. He must have taken pity on me from the look on my face when presented with the bill. I did know before hand the price but I still cringed.
The wheel cylinder brake pipe union threads are not the same as the Minor so you will need to get new pipes made up.

[bmcecosse]

I'll need to check - but it may be possible to use Minor rear cylinders....??

[philthehill]

The cheapest and only Wolseley 1500 rear brake cylinders on 'e' bay at the moment are £83.99 per pair. Whilst I hope to be proved wrong it does not look as if the Minor rear brake cylinders will fit without modifying the back plate. Unfortunately I do not have a Minor back plate to compare with the Wolseley back plate.
The only new brake cylinders available at the time of the upgrade were supplied by Past Parts Part No: 25-0904AM and supposedly specially made in small batches so that is why the purchase cost was excessive and I bought without giving in an old unit in exchange. See http://www.pastparts.co.uk for more information
The seal repair kits that I was given are Lockheed KL71543 and Lockheed LK11506. I have not had to use them so do not know if they are correct but all gifts were gratefully received.

[ColinChandler]

Hello chaps and thanks for all your comments,
Yes I've just looked on Ebay too - Gulp swallow. Luckily I have everything I need already so it doesnt panic me too much at the moment even though next time around it might be more painful. Thanks for mentioning the brake pipe connections are different. Its no problem when you know in advance. Also, the only other thing that might need a bit of fiddling with is the handbrake cable bracket on the leaf springs which I guess wont be in the right place. Does anyone have any memories of what's needed there?
Thanks again, its all been very constructive and much appreciated.
Colin.

[bmcecosse]

I fitted these on my old rally Minor - 45 years ago now - and for the life of me I can't remember what I did...sorry. It can't have been anything too difficult - because back then I struggled to get hold of even an electric drill!

[philthehill]

The handbrake cable is fitted to the existing outer cable mounting bracket.
I fitted the N/S to the O/S and the O/S to the N/S as the 1500 handbrake cable is behind the rear axle tube and the Minor in the front of the axle tube. This change over does not appear to effect braking efficiency.
The brake pipe runs along the back of the axle tube and then under the axle tube and into the cylinder. There is enough flexibility in the pipe route to enable the cylinder to move in the back plate/
And yes it does need a spot of oil but the complete rear axle/diff is due for an overhaul/repaint very soon.
See attached photo.[frame][/frame]

[ColinChandler]

That's brilliant. Thank you all very much.
regards, Colin.

[bmcecosse]

That sounds familiar Phil - I think that is what I did too...

[johngrigg]

The Wolseley 1500 didn't make it to Australia but BMC Australia produced down market versions called Morris Majors and Austin Lancers which used the Wolseley brakes. When I fitted these to the front of my 948 many years ago I was assured by many "experts" that fitting the rears was a waste of time because, they said, the rears don't do much anyway. I eagerly wheeled it out for its first run with the new brakes to find no difference that I could pick from the Standard Minor brakes. I then fitted Major/Wolseley rears and for the first time had brakes that actually stopped the car.
I used the Major wheel cylinders which are a different bore to the Minor and a 13/16 Master which is the Major size. I wanted to retain the Major master/slave ratio thinking ,perhaps naively, that the BMC engineers would have worked out the best ratio for the larger drums. whatever, it worked. Having said that many locals use minor cylinders, which i would do if i wanted to use the minor Master. apparently the backing plate slots need relieving with a file.
I didn't swap the rears side to side which puts the bleed nipple at the bottom which I have found in the past with other cars can lead to bleeding problems. I simply rerouted the handbrake cable slightly, which has caused no problems in the 30 odd years since I did it. the rears don't lock up and all up it was an easy and satisfying conversion, yes the wheel cylinders are pricey, but I'll get mine sleeved when they need it, which is cheaper and lasts longer

[ColinChandler]

Thanks John. Its always nice to hear practical and personal experiences.

And once again, thanks to everyone for the help.

Best wishes, Colin.

[philthehill]

As you can see from the above photo the bleed nipples are at the top and so do not effect the bleeding process. Bringing the pipe in from under and round the rear of the axle permits you do put the bleed nipple in the top hole. Luckily they are the same thread and have the same seat so it works.
Whilst it is good to re-sleeve the prices quoted in the above link are still steep. For example an A35 front re-sleeved wheel cylinder which is of a most basic cylinder design is £40.26 plus VAT and has a £25 surcharge on the old cylinder so it aint cheap. You may be able to find a cheaper re-manufacturer but I suspect that they are all much of a muchness.