New Torsion Bars??

[Tony]

I have been trying to get rid of a creaking noise which is coming from the front where the bottom arm splines onto the torsion bar. I managed to get a new “old stock” bottom arm and fitted this with locktite but there is still play and it still creaks. Therefore the wear must the torsion bar splines. As I am getting rather fed up with dismantling the suspension I would much prefer to fit a new one. Are new torsion bars available? And if so where from? Thanks, Tony

[MarkyB]

Very unlikely to be the torsion bar.
What shape are the chassis legs in?
A crack can make a creaking noise.

[IslipMinor]

Agreed, very unlikely to be the torsion bar causing the creaking. When you replaced the bottom arm, did you also replace the bushes? If so what type of bushes did you fit?

[Tony]

When I originally took off the torsion bar there was no creak. However the bottom arm was seized onto the torsion bar and I had to use gas to split them. If I put grease on the splines the creak goes away for a couple of months. When the creak reoccurs I split the suspension, re-grease it and all is OK. When holding the torsion bar (off the car) you can rock the bottom arm so there is significant play. I had hoped this play was wear in the bottom arm. I have now replaced the bottom arm with a new one but the creak persists. I have standard “modern” rubber bushes and these are all OK and are not suffering in any way.

So I have come to the conclusion that I should try another torsion bar. I didn’t really want to try a second-hand one as you can never be sure what side they have come from and also there is the remote chance it could suffer the same problem. I am sure I saw an advert some while ago of a Morris Minor supplier offering new torsion bars but I can’t find anyone advertising in the last couple of Minor Matters. Can anyone recall who was selling them?

[Declan_Burns]

David Manners Group sell second hand torsion bars for £52.80 and uprated ones but pricey at-£302.40.
http://www.jagspares.co.uk/Morris/PartV ... eField.y=6
Regards
Declan

[MarkyB]

had to use gas to split them

Cripes! How hot did you get it?
There are people here breaking suitable cars, get the side you need and give them the old stuff if they need to have a rolling chassis.
Get the arm and torsion bar.

[bmcecosse]

£52 for a used T bar??? I've got a small fortune in my garage it seems !!

[DAVIDMCCULLOUGH]

There really shouldnt be any space for play in this area, has the car had a new chassis leg or crossmember fitted and perhaps out of place slightly? It may be worth trying a spacer or couple of washers behind the torsion bar at the crossmember end and seeing if this pushes it up a bit closer.

I remember reading somewhere that BMC had only about 6 warranty issues about torsion bars during the whole of minor production!!

[don58van]

Hi All

I think the previous poster is confusing fore-aft play with rotational play (around the axis of the torsion bar).

I am restoring a Traveller that came to me as a 'barn find'. When disassembling the front suspension, I noticed that on one side the front arm splined onto the torsion bar has significant play. I don't know if the suspension creaked when it was on the road.

I am therefore very interested in the suggestions being offered.

The idea of a new arm/bar pair sounds good to me, as long as I can be sure that the replacements are from the correct side.

Here is a thought--would it be worth rotating the front and rear arms say 45 degrees on the torsion bar to see whether the play goes away? You would only have to try the front one initially to see what happens. Then, if it does work (unlikely I know), rotate the back arm in the same direction by the same number of splines. I'll give it a go on mine and report back in due course.

Like some others above, I doubt whether this would cause a creaking noise. I think that each time the suspension is disassembled, whatever IS making the creak is being disturbed, causing it to go quiet for a while.

Cheers
Don

[MarkyB]

The look of a part that is creaking is generally quite distinctive, very dry, some shiny metal and very red dust surrounding the area.
These may not be visible externally if the creak is coming from an enclosed area like the eye bolt for instance.

[bmcecosse]

No point rotating anything - the arms engage on the whole circumference of the bar.

[Tony]

Hi All

I think the previous poster is confusing fore-aft play with rotational play (around the axis of the torsion bar).

I am restoring a Traveller that came to me as a 'barn find'. When disassembling the front suspension, I noticed that on one side the front arm splined onto the torsion bar has significant play. I don't know if the suspension creaked when it was on the road.

I am therefore very interested in the suggestions being offered.

The idea of a new arm/bar pair sounds good to me, as long as I can be sure that the replacements are from the correct side.

Here is a thought--would it be worth rotating the front and rear arms say 45 degrees on the torsion bar to see whether the play goes away? You would only have to try the front one initially to see what happens. Then, if it does work (unlikely I know), rotate the back arm in the same direction by the same number of splines. I'll give it a go on mine and report back in due course.

Like some others above, I doubt whether this would cause a creaking noise. I think that each time the suspension is disassembled, whatever IS making the creak is being disturbed, causing it to go quiet for a while.

Cheers
Don

I think you are right Don. The reason it doesn't creak for a while after reassembly is that I always grease the splines to protect them against corrosion and to make splitting them again in the future easier. The last time I did it I fitted a brand new bottom arm and in desperation used locktite on the splines instead of grease and it creaked straight away. I can also confirm (as noted by MarkyB) that after a few months there is red rust around the joint. I am pretty convinced that as it was originally seized, and needed heat to split it, that the rust as eaten a little into the splines and hence the play. I will therefore look for a replacement torsion bar. I was hoping to splash out on a new one but it looks like standard ones are not made. I telephoned David Manners (thank you Declan-burns for your post) but they only do 50, 75 or 100% uprated and as I don't want to replace both I think it best to source a good secondhand one. Obviously I need to make sure it came off the nearside and if anyone has a good one available please let me know. Thanks everyone. Tony

[aupickup]

i have 2 if inteested
but can not be sure what side is what
tho they are a pair

[bmcecosse]

It's not THAT important to use them same side - if wrong, it may just settle down rather quickly and need re-setting.

[aupickup]

thats good to know roy

[bmcecosse]

MUCH more important to only use half shafts on same side they came off.......

[katy]

important to only use half shafts on same side they came off

Is this a proven thing? or only an old wives tale?

[MarkyB]

They were very over engineered in the first place and probably wouldn't actually break.
However, they do take on a set over time, I would expect this to "unwind" relatively quickly which would be a nuisance at least.

[IslipMinor]

or only an old wives tale?

Maybe not quite as much as 'wiper motors run backwards on negative earth'!

Stress reversals will cause work hardening and weakening of the half shaft material, so should be avoided if possible. It really depends on what loads the shaft was exposed to in its first life and how much of a reversal needs to take place if it is fitted to the opposite side. The lighter the loads before it is reversed, and the lighter the loads after being reversed, the more chance that it will survive.

[bmcecosse]

The half shaft splines take a set - pull a shaft and look for yourself. The T bars are heavily over engineered - but need to be for the weight of the car. They may just settle down rather quickly if used 'wrong side'.....